urgent reply needed bloat

[kathy]

My bull not so eager to eat this a.m. but did some tonite off feed looks like bloat, gave some probios, walking him. But releasing gas and pooping ( for the lack of a better word at the moment) all good signs right? Or does that have any effect at all?

 

[semen demon]

Kathy,

Release of gas is great, but that is a long way from his rumen. put his in a head catch, and put a tube down his throat. When you get to the gas pocket, the smell coming out of the end of the tub e will be so strong you won't be able to mistake it. let all the gas bleed out the tubeyou will be able to see and feel his side going down. If you seem to loose nflow but he is still bloated, just fish the tube around in his gut untill you find more gas.

Plan B! Take a 16 gauge needle about 1.5 or 2 inches long. Stab it into his left flank real high so that you are in the gas pocket and not in the bile. Go to the top of the crownand poke through there. Hold on to your needle, and let him drain off that way. When you are done, them give him his probios. Good Luck.

 

[milkmaid]

But releasing gas and pooping ( for the lack of a better word at the moment) all good signs right?

Not necessarily. They can be squirting out the back end while filling up with gas until they look like they're going to fly away. Look at him from the rear - (edit; sitting in front of the computer I can't remember which side it is...) if just "one" side is "full" looking, it could just be from the feed in his rumen. Once that gas starts to fill the "other" side too, that's when I get really worried. And feel his sides - does that area in the flank feel soft or is it hard and full of gas?

I'm not sure I completely understand the logic behind some people suggesting probiotic on a bloated animal...? I've used therabloat once on a slightly-bloated calf that might have also been fine if I'd left him alone - either way, he was OK when I returned.

If he IS really bloated....well, I lost one in 20 minutes. Follow SD's instructions and tend to your bull. Fast.

 

[kathy]

so difficulty level for someone who's never done that before? the possiblility of getting the tube in wrong, doing more damage than good? is there anything else that I could do first?

 

[Jimmie Bauer]

I use GASX and ROLAIDS. The gas x is small and you can get them down easy by placing them on the inside of the mouth. I use 4 for a 300 lb heifer that bloats all the time. I give 3 or 4 ROLAIDS in the mouth, hold the mouth closed, and let them chew them up. It has worked for me everytime.
I use bloat guard in the feed for the heifer that bloats all the time.

 

[kathy]

the right side doesn't show any signs of being different, I just noticed that the left side was distended more than it's supposed to be. His belly is not hard or tight especially, I'm headed out right now to check again. Again how much damage can I do if I try and tube him? Also what kind of tube, how can I improvise?

 

[milkmaid]

If he's real bad, it's either a tube or a knife. If he's not real bad, you can try mineral oil down the tube. Going to have to do one or the other if he is actually bloated. Knife last resort. But don't wait too long - been there done that. What do you have on hand?

Ever tubed a calf? or have a neighbor close by who can help? (but don't wait on the neighbor too long either, been there done that) Stick the hose in his mouth (if you can, put it inside a steel tube/pvc pipe so he doesn't chew your hose in pieces), work it toward the back of his throat and let him swallow it. You'll feel that. If you DO get it down the windpipe, not a big deal as long as you don't put mineral oil down (will kill him).

 

[milkmaid]

As to the tube - a hose will work. I've seen vets put water down the tube first to make sure it's in the right spot. If it's in the lungs you'll have a reaction, for sure, but a little bit of water isn't going to (seriously) hurt him. Put mineral oil in the lungs though, and then you're in trouble. That's why they try water first.

 

[msscamp]

I use GASX and ROLAIDS. The gas x is small and you can get them down easy by placing them on the inside of the mouth. I use 4 for a 300 lb heifer that bloats all the time. I give 3 or 4 ROLAIDS in the mouth, hold the mouth closed, and let them chew them up. It has worked for me everytime.
I use bloat guard in the feed for the heifer that bloats all the time.

You might look into mixing a little baking soda into her feed. Does the same thing, but a lot cheaper.

 

[msscamp]

the right side doesn't show any signs of being different, I just noticed that the left side was distended more than it's supposed to be. His belly is not hard or tight especially, I'm headed out right now to check again. Again how much damage can I do if I try and tube him? Also what kind of tube, how can I improvise?

Kathy, do you have a tubing apparatus? If so, is the tube permanently connected to the bottle?

 

[kathy]

ok so i just came in from checking him and walking him again, now the left side appears normal almost, it's dark hard to see exactly. He's walking around fine, flank area not hard. But you know that all are not eager to eat, and we just vaccinated yesterday with 8-way. Could this have anything to do with it? I also have a heifer no signs of bloat but she's not herself tonite either. Maybe I'm just to amateur to know exactly what bloat looks like.

 

[msscamp]

Bloat will cause the left side to be distended. Hang on just a minute and I will get you a link to the Merck Veterinary Handbook that has a picture.

 

[msscamp]

Ok, here you go.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

8-way could also cause them to go off feed for a short time. The stress of being handled if they are not used to it could also do the same thing.

 

[kathy]

thanks everyone!!! I guess we'll see what happens..

 

[msscamp]

I don't know what you are feeding this animal, but if it's grain - especially grain with molasses mixed in such as cob (also known as 3-way) - you might want to think about mixing a little baking soda in his feed. It will go quite a ways towards combating bloat. Just my thoughts.

 

[kathy]

should the baking soda be just when i see a problem? actually he's been on show beef, but now that he's not going to make it to show for other reasons, can i take him off grain completely and work him onto some alfalfa for the winter? or is that going to cause me more problems, i don't want to grain all winter if i don't have too.

 

[msscamp]

should the baking soda be just when i see a problem? actually he's been on show beef, but now that he's not going to make it to show for other reasons, can i take him off grain completely and work him onto some alfalfa for the winter? or is that going to cause me more problems, i don't want to grain all winter if i don't have too.

If you're going to take him off grain completely, do it gradually or you risk acidosis. I think the baking soda can be used on a daily basis, as it helps to prevent bloat. I distinctly remember tubing bloated calves with a solution of water, baking soda, and a little bit of dishwashing detergent for bloat when I was a kid...I just can't remember how much of what as it's been a while. Definitely DO NOT simply cut out the grain, wean him off it gradually. Grain isn't the only thing that can cause bloat, though. I don't know what you have this guy on, so I'm at somewhat of a loss as to how to advise except for the grain.

 

[kathy]

he's on "show beef" custom mix, and grass hay (orchard grass) but he's not been put solely on show beef he's always had a mix of rolled corn and oats also. I just hadn't got him up to full feed (especially since i realized i wasn't going to be able to get him to show).on the special grain and he was used to the corn and oats. So he's been half and half for quite a while. I figured i would just decrease the show feed until it was gone then not give him any more.....good or bad? although just checked on him again, no labored breathing, doesn't seem distended any longer..he's up and moving. Maybe i just jumped the gun into panic.

 

[milkmaid]

I figured i would just decrease the show feed until it was gone then not give him any more.....good or bad?

Sounds fine; you can drop it by a couple pounds per week. How much is he getting per day right now?

although just checked on him again, no labored breathing, doesn't seem distended any longer..he's up and moving. Maybe i just jumped the gun into panic.

Done that one before, called my neighbor out to look at a cow - don't feel bad about being too careful. Better safe than sorry.

 

[msscamp]

Jumping the gun is a possibility, but I always figure better safe than sorry. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned, as I have a tendancy to jump the gun as well when it comes to our cows. If you can't show him, then cut his show feed back gradually until he's just on the grass hay and maybe a little grain depending on whether or not he has access to pasture or not. We don't generally feed grain, but we also don't feed straight grass hay. We feed a mix of ground alfalfa/grass/straw + beet pulp when the girls are stuck in the corral and a mix of alfalfa and grass when we need to supplement with hay due to weather when they are on the corn stalks or pasture. Does he have access to pasture? If so, what type because alfalfa or clover can have bloat implications as well. Otherwise sounds like you're doing fine!