Unknown sickness with Calf

[Ponderosa]

Hello, as others have stated I am somewhat new to the treatment of sick animals. I do have a few cows and have a calf that was born to one of them that never latched on to the mother, even though it was the 3rd day when we found her, we were able to save her by getting clostrum replacement with vitamins and milk replacer down her, she was near death and resoponded well, 3 days later she went down again and the vet poured the magic green electolyte solution down her and she responded very well. She has been strong for 8-9 months

She is about 300lbs now and 8-9 months. 2 weeks ago while I was working out of town she went down. She was very bloated and not able to hold her head up. My inlaws rolled her every 45 min and gave her an enima thinking she was constepated from ingestion of Cactus, along with a recommended penicilin shot which again miricale calf responded too, and by midnight was up and eating.
Now 4 days ago she went down again, when she was found she was very bloated she stayed down like this for 2 days laid out, and all that was done was she was flipped over every once in a while (these things always happen when Im out of town on the job) Oh did I mention our local VET is not working due to some family problems. The 2nd day and again an enima was given, she was extremely bloated with labored breath, the rumin was stabbed to releave the pressure in a final attempt to help her, a pencilin shot was given and in 45 minutes with human lifting she was up and did walk 200ft to a pen. Now that i am home I have been giving her 10cc of penicilin at noon, and feeding her horse & mule & little hay, and 1 gal & half of water with electrolytes. When I lift her up in the mornings she stands and drinks from the bottle eats a bit and her legs are shakey she will lay down (most by fall) and as long as i get her legs under she will be able to hold her head up indefinately. she has spots of hair loss around her nose. we are in drought conditions and now wonder if she became malnurished. She is still having normal stools. She drinks anything we give her in a bottle, and seems to have an appetite for the horse & mule but eats slowly. She is just very weak and cant stand steady. I was told to keep the pencilin going 4-5 days to fight at least for infection the rumin cut may bring, but not knowing what the real cause is am so confused. I would give up but this animal is a survivor Im sure she has escaped nature 5 times now and I have invested a lot of time into her. Just wanted to see if any one had any ideas?

 

[milkmaid]

300lbs and 8-9 months? and raised on a cow? Either extremely malnourished or she has some other internal problem and really isn't growing right. She should be 200-300lbs heavier than that at this age.

Doesn't explain the bloat though.

 

[Farmhand]

Weighing 300lbs and being 8-9 months old doesn't seem right to me. Either she's heavier than that or she's younger than that. If this is weight and age is true - shoot her! She's a waste of time, energy, and money!

Now if she is a lot younger and bloating - get her off the grain. Grain keeps bloat going. Put her on a high quality milk replacer instead of the electolytes to get nutrition and strength back. Don't know what pen. you're using. Vet had us using LA200 last week. 4.5cc/100lbs. 300 lb calf = 13.5cc. Keep good quality hay and water in front of her.

 

[Farmhand]

I am guessing that the bloat is coming from the horse & mule feed. Thinking she is getting too much. Don't know what is in horse & mule feed. I like to stay with feeds formulated for the species. We like to start with an all stock feed and mix in some cracked corn for energy. Take the grain away and then introduce something for calves a little at a time.

 

[Ponderosa]

she very well could be 400lbs Im not a real good judge of weight. I guess 1200 yesterday on a cow that went to market and she topped it at 1450?
The bloat is not due to the Horse & Mule, the vet told me to give it to her after I got her up and to the stall, thats when he also said 4-5 days of peniciln. She has been on nothing but coastol bermuda hay for 4 months, we have no grass now. Need rain bad.

Been reading lots of responses to other cattle problems that LA200 isnt that good? I dont know

Hey Farmhand, even if she has been of milk replacer for 2 months you think I should go back to it?


does any of this help to make more responses?

 

[milkmaid]

How about a bit more information?

Confirm her age.
And weight.
Breed?
Ever wormed this calf?
Vaccinated?
What type of mineral do you have out for her?
What type of hay is she on?

I'd pull her off that "horse and mule" feed - you're feeding a bovine, not an equine, aren't you? Put her on something either specifically for cattle or something general like straight corn, barley, or oats.

 

[milkmaid]

OK, I was typing while you were posting. :lol:

Just how long ago was she stabbed to relieve the bloat? four days? or two? Could be she has a severe infection which is why she's not feeling good. Perfectly possible penicillin isn't doing anything. What dosage are you using, and what type of penicillin have you been giving?

I'd go with banamine - for pain - IV only, mind you; and then try a different type of antibiotic. Nuflor perhaps, or LA200. Nothing wrong with the latter - it all depends on what your problem is. LA200 might be the right drug to use in this case.

Picture of this calf?

 

[Farmhand]

Had a calf last week that had been off replacer that long. Thought we were going to lose the calf. Put it back on replacer and it is a very happy healthy critter today.

 

[Ponderosa]

How about a bit more information?

Confirm her age.
And weight.
Breed?
Ever wormed this calf?
Vaccinated?
What type of mineral do you have out for her?
What type of hay is she on?

I'd pull her off that "horse and mule" feed - you're feeding a bovine, not an equine, aren't you? Put her on something either specifically for cattle or something general like straight corn, barley, or oats.

she was born May 19 2005 (8 mon)
cant confirm weight I say 300-400
She is a Red Zebo
Not wormed
Not vacinated (vacinate 8-1 in Spring)
Mineral - just a trace mineral salt block
right now she is eating off a real clean coastal bermuda square bail. Has been eating with others on bigger round bails not as clean, but Hay is extremely scarce down here now.

Oats Really? Crushed Corn? Any one of the 3 better?
do you agree with putting her back on milk replacer at this age?
I have LA200 just dont know if I should switch and if so when
Been giving here 10cc "Penicillin G Procaine" once daily

Thank you

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I would just like to point out to everyone. When a calf does not received colostrom within the first 1-24 hours - it NEVER gets any immunities and is prone to everything and anything. Now this calf should have been vaccinated at an early age to make sure it had SOME immunites, because the colostrom she received at 3 days old didn't do anything for her, it was just nutritious food.
A 400#, 8 month old calf is waaay too small. Can you feel her spine when you run your hand down her back? If so, she's malnutritioned. She needs good quality hay, and feed balanced for a BEEF animal. I'm not sure about milk replacer at that age, but maybe since she is so small & behind, it would be just what she needs. But, whatever you give her, keep it in small doses, her stomach cannot take a lot of anything except good quality grass hay - she can have all she will eat.
Since she is on meds, she should get some Probias (a replacement for good bugs).
It sounds like you really care for this animal, just don't know what you are doing. And I'm not trying to be mean, if you aren't knowledgeable about something, it's hard to do the right thing. Good luck.

 

[Ponderosa]

I would like to see her be a miracle success story I do care, I do admit I dont know. Should I vacinate now?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Vaccines do not work when an animal is under stress - and your heifer is definately under stress right now.
Right now you need to get good quality food in her. When a bovine gets an antibiotic, the antibiotic kills bugs - good and bad. A beef animal needs a lot of GOOD bugs in their stomach to digest food. The Probias will give her some good bugs and should increase her appetite if she survives long enough for it to work.
Lets get her up & eating right now.

 

[rk]

Good advice from others already. However, I would not recommend any straight grain. If bloat is feed related, a high grain diet will make this worse. Like others, I wonder about the health status, but I don't feel like I should offer advice on health. Probios is good recommendation from Jeanne. I would also recommend a good commercial receiving ration. It should be palatable so it will eat and it should have good fiber to help prevent bloat problem. Good luck!

 

[milkmaid]

I wouldn't vaccinate yet - IMO it would do little to nothing for her right now. An animal's response to vaccines can be hindered by stress - dehorning, branding, weaning, sickness, etc, etc, you name it. As her immune system is already stressed by whatever problem she has, the vaccines wouldn't be effective.

At this point, I'd concentrate on getting her well and in good condition, and then vaccinating, so her immune system really will respond like it should.

 

[milkmaid]

:lol: Jeanne - I was typing at the same time as you - I'm glad to see I've got the right idea, at least. ;-)

 

[Ponderosa]

I must say how impressed I am with all of you offering advice. I just wish I had you at 1:00 am when I got home on Thursday. Regardless a great Huge THANK YOU!

I got some 5/32 calf creep, whole oats, Milk replacer, and Probias paste.
Mixed the creep and oats, and then fed some beautiful high dollar hay I found at the Feed store, It is coastal Bermuda grass not alphalpha or wheat. One of our more nutrisous grasses down here. She 2 2qts of milk, ate some of the feed, and mostly ate the hay. I gave her the probias paste based on her weight. Dont want to keep this thing going to annoy all of you so Ill see what happens.

Jeanne (anyone), do you have any idea how often I should give the Probias?

 

[Saltydawg]

Keep that hay and water in front of her.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Ponderosa

Give probios every 3-4 days while giving antibiotics, give last probios 3-4 days after last antibiotic.

BTW-I have found that 60-120cc of Ivory liquid will relieve bloat in 20-30 minutes. Just use syringe without needle to squirt it into the back of mouth. If the animal is down due to impaired breathing from bloat there is probably not enough time for soap to work. Puncturing the rumen is the fast, but dirty way when rapid relief is a must.

As far as feed, keep out good quality hay, water and about 1 gallon/day of sweet feed to start. You may increase the sweet feed about 1 quart every 3-4 days. With good hay and 1.5-2.0 gallons of sweet feed daily, she should have the needed nutrition to support her recovery. I think horse & mule is the name of an all purpose sweet feed. If that is correct it should work well for this situation.

Good luck & best wishes

Brock

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

about 1 gallon/day of sweet feed to start. You may increase the sweet feed about 1 quart every 3-4 days. With good hay and 1.5-2.0 gallons of sweet feed daily,

:shock: :shock:
NO NO NO - the most she can get is 1% of her body weight per day. So if she is 400# she should get a maximum of 2# in the morning & 2# in the evening.
You are doing great with the GOOD quality grass hay. She may have been starving to death & ate something that was making her bloat. 2# could actually be too much for a few days if she WAS starving. Take it SLOW!!! Hay, water & milk might be all she needs for a few days, with maybe a mouthful of grain - slowly increasing. Over the next few weeks/month, she can SLOWLY be increased to 3% of her body weight in grain. But again, I repeat take it slow. Her system may not be able to handle much of anything. 1% to 3% range is for NORMAL growing cattle.
If you plan on keeping this heifer, you can't just turn her out to the non-existing pastures after she gets up & going. You are waaay behind in her growth. She needs TLC til you get her up to breeding size - if she ever gets up to breeding size & cycling. She may need an extra year to be ready - breeding at 24 months instead of 14 months.

 

[Ponderosa]

Thank you