Unemployment 10.2%

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aplusmnt

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My thoughts are with all the people struggling to find a job. Unemployment hit 10.2% the highest it has been in 26 years!
 
aplusmnt":dssd82gg said:
My thoughts are with all the people struggling to find a job. Unemployment hit 10.2% the highest it has been in 26 years!

I wish there were only 10.2% unemployed. We would have it made.
 
HerefordSire":3snrbx1y said:
aplusmnt":3snrbx1y said:
My thoughts are with all the people struggling to find a job. Unemployment hit 10.2% the highest it has been in 26 years!

I wish there were only 10.2% unemployed. We would have it made.

True, but just using the official numbers, the real numbers would complicate things.

I just hope that we can see a turn around as quick as we did back in 83 when the economy grew 8% in one year and unemployment dropped 2.5% in just one year. Economist say it is unlikely that this time around we will see such improvement and such a fast fixing of unemployment. Looks like it is more likely to get worse not better as it did in them early 80's.
 
HerefordSire":1t0fuspy said:
aplusmnt":1t0fuspy said:
My thoughts are with all the people struggling to find a job. Unemployment hit 10.2% the highest it has been in 26 years!

I wish there were only 10.2% unemployed. We would have it made.

Figures don't lie...... :mrgreen:
 
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Interesting incentives on business loans, to employ folks. I just can't grab the concept of borrowing yourself out of debt whether it is household or business loans. Probably never will. Just to set in my ways?

If I can earn money on an employee, I should hire him/her. That is how I see it in a nutshell. Why would I borrow money to hire someone?
 
Right now the average work week is like 33 hours, so there is a lot of room to increase production with out hiring new people, the work week just needs to be extended to 40 hours.

Someone better start making some productive moves like back in the 80's to fix this problem or it is going to get worse and worse!
 
backhoeboogie":2ccvdenj said:
Interesting incentives on business loans, to employ folks. I just can't grab the concept of borrowing yourself out of debt whether it is household or business loans. Probably never will. Just to set in my ways?

If I can earn money on an employee, I should hire him/her. That is how I see it in a nutshell. Why would I borrow money to hire someone?

There is leverage in debt. With the same amount of equity, such as having zero debt and having 40% debt, for example, allows one to increase revenues more....as long as you can service the debt. Apple Computer has zero debt and mounds of cash on their books. Theoretically, they are not maximizing revenue.
 
If there is any silver lining in all this its can be seen in the quality of workers you can now select from. I'm currently looking at hiring some people and I'm impressed at their qualifications. Even had one applicant with a phD. :shock:
 
backhoeboogie":e57y9msk said:
Interesting incentives on business loans, to employ folks. I just can't grab the concept of borrowing yourself out of debt whether it is household or business loans. Probably never will. Just to set in my ways?

If I can earn money on an employee, I should hire him/her. That is how I see it in a nutshell. Why would I borrow money to hire someone?

Well borrowing oneself out of debt is an oxymoron but you can definitly borrow yourself into very high profitability.
 
Bad thing about unemployment satistics is that once the unemployment bucks run out the person is dropped off the rolls...sure that there is a whole lot of folks with out jobs that are not counted in the news releases. What about the ones that flat just don't want to work...where are they counted?
DMc
 
With a population of about 350 million people that would mean there are more people unemployed in the United States than exist in total in Canada which has a population of around 32 million. Tell them this - if they are healthy and able - join the Army - serve their country and pay back some of what they have been given. There must be at least 40% of that population that is able bodied.

I do not see it getting better - in fact I see it getting worse. Simply because as times get tougher people in the US tend to look inward. That simply does not work today.

Buy American - sounds great doesn't it?

Unfortunately that also means your manufacturers will have to look elsewhere for their widgets. And they will have to pay more for them. Which means they have less disposable income - which means they either pay less or lay people off. In todays economy the entire western world has integrated to provide "just in time" delivery of essential parts and pieces to build widgets. When you cannot get them because they are purchased off shore - then you are in trouble.

Silly examples exist as well. Ripping installed piping out of walls in a naval base in southern Californis because it was made in Canada and re-installing American piping. Simple fiscal irresponsibility. When your local baker has to use local wheat for his bread - it sounds great. But when he buys wheat from a foreign country he is able to produce that CHEAP FOOD everyone wants. When he cannot find that cheap wheat and is forced to buy expensive wheat he increases pricing or lays off employees. (Just a hypothetical example folks - I do not know wheat costs and for sure some nit picker will tell me it is cheaper to buy US wheat)

You who actually make a living on cattle - and there are a small number here - do not like it when you have to sell at a low price. In fact I do not like it either - but you compete on a foreign market. Close those doors and force your folks to buy American and watch the prices go up. And the resulting consumption drop as even more switch to chicken and pork.

You folks who buy a pallet of wire for fencing - or drugs for vaccinations or shovels to dig post holes - well we all talk a good story - but beach about pricing. If you have equal quality products - side by side on the shelf and one is 40% more than the other - the cheap one being foreign made - the expensive one being US made - which one you going to buy?

If you tell me you will always buy US made - then you are a poor businessman or a liar - you will go to the PRICE based decision - your own margins are too small unless you are a hobby guy and do not care because it is such a small part of your life. If you lose that choice then you lose a lot of ability to make sound financial decisions.

You cannot close the doors - looking only inward - and then increase your national debt load by nearly 100% and expect your economy to grow- already your dollar has fallen drastically. I see it in my own pay cheque as I am paid in US bucks - the value of my pay cheque has dropped by more than 15% in buying power in the past couple of months and the US dollar is in danger of losing its preferred international currency status to the Euro.

I took this from another web site a long time ago and have lost the authors name - but he said it quite well:

Buy American" provisions make sense politically, because they create huge political payoffs for elected officials who protect jobs in domestic industries. But, economically, Buy American rules, like all forms of trade protectionism, make no sense at all, since research shows that for every job protected and saved, about two jobs are lost.

Why? Because Buy American provisions and tariffs protect inefficient domestic producers from more efficient foreign rivals. Take steel manufacturers. American firms that buy domestic steel are forced to charge consumers more. So retail sales decline, and thousands of jobs are then lost in countless industries that use steel as raw material.

And as American consumers and companies are forced to pay higher prices for products with domestic steel, they have less money to spend on other purchases. That's billions of dollars in sales lost to other industries, resulting in lower production and even fewer jobs.

Protectionism also provokes retaliation. This weekend, representatives of Canadian cities, upset with the "Buy American" rules, voted for "Buy Canadian" policies that could block American companies from bidding on city contracts. The inevitable result will be a decline in trade with our largest trading partner, and a loss of yet more American jobs.


You need some serious changes in the way you do business - and one of them is to not ignore your trading partners - Canada is your largest - with who you do over a BILLION DOLLARS A DAY IN TRADE or it may - no - it will - come back to haunt you with even higher unemployment. Your country is NOT an island and your politicians have done well to get you thinking it is - at a serious cost to many who now wonder how they will keep feeding not only their families, but themselves

Regards

Bez+
 
Another article showing how Buy American is hurting your northern neighbour.

And how it potentially will cause unemployment in the US to rise due to policies of Buy American.

Business is always a two way street.

If it is not respected there are always penalties.

Trade retaliation from the biggest business partner you folks in the US of A have - Canada - is probably not far off.

If the shoe was on the other foot you would do the same.

So - with a billion dollars a day business going down the tubes - you will start to see your unemployment rise and quite likely your oil, fuel and gas industries will be hit with tariffs which you will be forced to pay once existing contracts come to an end - making it even more expensive for your own people to maintain the life style you have today.

Free trade is not being honoured - and that will make it hard for both sides - but remember - your unemployed actually out number the entire population of Canada - meaning they will also become a huge fiscal burden on your economy. Add in your illegal immigrant population taking advantage of your benefits and the interest on your debt - and you have a train coming at you. And it will not stop for anyone.

Going to be pretty expensive to feed those horses and cows when you are unable to buy Canadian hay - and that is a pretty big industry in eastern Canada.

You think your taxes are bad now - just wait for it - they are on the way up - and the rise will not be a small one.

Unemployment is going up - if it falls it will be due to 7-11 type jobs - and you cannot pay your mortgage on that salary

Regards

Bez+
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'Buy American horror stories' building
Natalie Stechyson, Canwest News Service
Published: Friday, November 06, 2009

Reuters Buy American protectionist measure are not only hurting Canadian companies, but American firms as well, says Canadian business people.
OTTAWA - For the second time in six months, pipe fittings in California are being ripped from the ground because they were stamped "Made in Canada," a move manufacturing companies say hurts both sides of the border.

Cambridge Brass Inc., a Canadian brass fittings manufacturer, discovered Thursday that it stands to lose more than $1.5- million in this most recent fallout from the Buy American protectionist measure.

Greg Bell, vice-president of sales and marketing for the Cambridge, Ont., company, received a call Thursday from the City of Sacramento, where the parts were being fitted into the public water system. He was told his product was no longer acceptable because it was not made in the United States.

"It's disheartening. (The city) wants American-made products and there's nothing I can do about it," Mr. Bell said. "Business is tough enough these days without having to deal with these roadblocks."

Anything already in the ground will have to be ripped back up at Cambridge Brass's expense, Mr. Bell said. Between the costs of losing the project, pulling up the pipes and legal fees, he estimates his company stands to lose money in the seven-figure range.

Cambridge Brass has been based in southern Ontario for more than a century and has survived two world wars and the Great Depression, but Buy American may be what finally causes the company to bid farewell to the province.

Mr. Bell said losing a major project like this would mean more layoffs for the already suffering company.

It has already lost a supply distributor in Maine, and it has had to lay off half of its own employees in Cambridge - from a workforce of 140 it is now down to 77 - since the introduction of Buy American policies this year.

And if these protectionist measures continue, he said, the company will likely be forced to move its manufacturing to the United States in order to stay in business.

"It's very frustrating when you're trying to build a business and the U.S. government isn't having open, honest and peaceful trade with Canada," Mr. Bell said.

The US$787-billion economic stimulus bill south of the border requires that only U.S.-manufactured goods be used in state and municipal infrastructure project bought with the funding.

Ottawa has been hoping the Obama administration would make an exception for Canadian goods in exchange for a guarantee that city and provincial bids in Canada would be open to U.S. firms. Gary Doer, Canada's new ambassador to the U.S., discussed the policies with the U.S, president in a meeting Wednesday, but momentum has yet to be seen.

Other Ontario pipe producers who have lost business because of the U.S. policy say the Canadian government needs to intervene.

IPEX Inc., a Toronto pipe-fittings manufacturer, made headlines in May when it was forced to rip its product out of the ground at the Camp Pendleton Marine base in California because the fittings were Canadian-made. Veso Sobot, director of corporate affairs for IPEX, notes the company's 15 Canadian locations - from Quebec to British Columbia - were all hit with significant financial losses and layoffs.

"I've been with the industry for 25 years, and I've never seen such layoffs in the sector. Ever," Mr. Sobot said.

The irony, Mr. Sobot notes, is that 90% of the materials IPEX uses to manufacture its product comes from Texas. The U.S. is ripping out U.S. products made in Canada, Mr. Sobot said. He adds that, if demand for the IPEX product remains low because of Buy American policies, they will not be able to purchase supplies from the U.S.

"The Americans are actually hurting themselves," Mr. Sobot said. "They can't win like this."

Similarly, he points out that Cambridge Brass is owned by AY-MacDonald, a U.S. company with headquarters in Michigan.

"The sentiment in America is buy American and forget everything else," Mr. Sobot said.

"The government has got to stand up and propose some serious retaliation," said John Hayward, president of Hayward Gordon Ltd., noting the Halton Hills, Ont.-based industrial-pump manufacturing company has been barred from bidding on U.S. products. He said he has had to switch manufacturing from three Canadian plants to U.S. sites in order to stay in business, a survival decision that has resulted in local layoffs.

What happened to Cambridge Brass is a clear example of a "Buy America horror story," Hayward said.

"This is the kind of unbelievable thing happening between Canada and the U.S.," he said.

"The U.S. is enjoying one-way market access and that just can't go on."

Some potential new businesses are wary of opening their doors in Canada. APG-Neuros, an international aeronautic technology manufacturer, had planned to build a new plant north of Montreal, but opened instead in New York State in October. Omar Hammoud, CEO and president of the company, explained that APG-Neuros would have gone bankrupt if it had built in Canada because 95% of its sales is in the U.S.

"When Americans are required to buy American, they all buy American," Mr. Hammoud said.

He said his hands were tied. The new plant would have created at least 40 jobs for Quebecers in its first year of business.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper met with U.S. President Barack Obama at the end of October to begin trade negotiations, but has not speculated on how long the talks might take.

Melisa Leclerc, spokeswoman for Trade Minister Stockwell Day, said the Canadian government is doing all it can to speed the process - not just for this particular case, but for all Canadian manufacturing that has been affected by the Buy American policy.

"Negotiations for Buy American are on the way," Ms. Leclerc said. "We will continue to make our case until this matter is resolved."

But Mr. Bell said any retaliation now comes too late for Cambridge Brass.

"Losing a project like this - a good winter project that keeps people employed - is terrible," Mr. Bell said.

"Governments on both sides of the border have to see how destructive this is to business."

The city of Sacramento did not immediately respond to a request for an interview.



Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/news-secto ... z0WB66uzXW
 
It's a tough situation for sure. And, in general, I agree with you about trade. But, IMO, the stimulus money is different. It should be used to encourage US companies. Didn't Canada do something similar?

And our military is getting more, higher quality, recruits than we have in several years.
 
Frankie":2cepr6pq said:
It's a tough situation for sure. And, in general, I agree with you about trade. But, IMO, the stimulus money is different. It should be used to encourage US companies. Didn't Canada do something similar?

And our military is getting more, higher quality, recruits than we have in several years.

Well frankie I do not argue we have used stimulus money - but it was not specifically designated to strict Canuck guidelines - if a company needed something to continue business - such as buy raw material from Texas - then they did - as was stated in the article.

So - now that Canadian pipe company - which buys 95% of the raw materials from YOUR country - cannot sell the finished product to YOUR country.

So - our stimulus money kept a company going, people employed and they in turn bought their product in YOUR country.

No longer and your program has caused it to end due to the antagonistic nature of the program.

This means folks in Texas will be out of work AND folks making pipe in Canada will be out of work - they will stop buying from Texas if things do not change.

So your Buy American will hurt your own people.

Very short sighted in my opinion - as there are many companies in the US that sell to Canada - if this keeps up - those companies will not have a customer - meaning they will have to lay off AMERICANS.

Stimulus money is to provide jobs - not every job in the US is dependant upon just the US - many are dependant upon other countries - especially Canada.

I believe there will be serious repercussions - and I see it in my own neighbourhood - the largest packaged seed and fertilizer supplier in the area is suffering because they are selling US product. Delivery is with US trucks from New York direct to the farm - rather it used to be - people are no longer buying - because of your Buy American program.

More than 70% of farmers are refusing to buy there any more - which in turn will likely cause serious layoffs to the parent company in New York. The two man office in Canada is run by Americans and their families who will likely be forced to return to the US if the business does not pick up.

A very small example - but a noticeable one.

Trade is a two way street

At a billion dollars a day - YOU have a lot of jobs riding on this as well.

It seems many do not see this and I guarantee you this - Canada will retaliate - hesitantly at first but it will grow unless someone comes to their senses.

Imagine the supreme stupidity of ripping out ALREADY INSTALLED piping just because it was not made in the US!

Only one small example - never pizz off the neighbours - even the small ones can become a big problem. When it came to cattle it was a small sector of the economy and only those directly affected really got involved - when it comes to national trade it has broad and far reaching effects - touching everyone - and engaging them.

You are doing the same in Europe and in Asia - your business - but realize - there will be serious layoffs in your own country and there will be cost increases and ensuing tax increases.

You cannot afford that.

To believe it is not so is narrow minded and will potentially create yet another round of the "ugly American" of the 60's and 70's.

Do not stick it in your friends eyes - friends are few and far between - hard to find and easy to lose.

Finally - more than 35 million unemployed! Your stimulus has failed and your Buy American will add to the failure - and you cannot afford to feed these people for very long.

Your country is NOT an island and it cannot exist without others. Unless you want to step back a generation or two in time.

Regards

Bez+
 
As I said, in general, I agree with you about trade. Short sighted? Maybe, but then the stimulus plan is, hopefully, a short term program.

Hope you are well and home soon.
 

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