Twin Timing

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cfpinz

cfpinz

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This might be a strange question but here goes: How much of a timeframe can seperate the birth of twin calves and the second one still be alive and well?
Reason for asking: The BWF heifer who is pictured in a post on the breeds board calved yesterday, 14 days premature. The calf is healthy, looks just like her, but weighs only 49 lbs. My calves average 75 lbs with an occasional high 50's calf. I would normally chalk the weight up to being early but here's the weird part-Saturday I found a dead calf in the field where she is. It was born some time on Friday but I didn't find it and it looks to have been born dead by the position. There are only 4 other cows in that pasture left to calve other than this heifer, no one claimed it, no one had any appreciable bag, nobody gaunted up, and nobody was sprung enough to have had a calf. The heifer looked more like the culprit than anyone, the rest being "seasoned" cows, i.e. they are old culls that will be sold as soon as they calve. I've been around cattle my whole life and while I'm not a self-proclaimed expert, I'd like to think have enough sense to figure out which cow is responsible. Needless to say, whoever doesn't have a calf at the end of the season will travel single. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
cfpinz":2w3icq7e said:
This might be a strange question but here goes: How much of a timeframe can seperate the birth of twin calves and the second one still be alive and well?
Reason for asking: The BWF heifer who is pictured in a post on the breeds board calved yesterday, 14 days premature. The calf is healthy, looks just like her, but weighs only 49 lbs. My calves average 75 lbs with an occasional high 50's calf. I would normally chalk the weight up to being early but here's the weird part-Saturday I found a dead calf in the field where she is. It was born some time on Friday but I didn't find it and it looks to have been born dead by the position. There are only 4 other cows in that pasture left to calve other than this heifer, no one claimed it, no one had any appreciable bag, nobody gaunted up, and nobody was sprung enough to have had a calf. The heifer looked more like the culprit than anyone, the rest being "seasoned" cows, i.e. they are old culls that will be sold as soon as they calve. I've been around cattle my whole life and while I'm not a self-proclaimed expert, I'd like to think have enough sense to figure out which cow is responsible. Needless to say, whoever doesn't have a calf at the end of the season will travel single. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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If the umbilical cord serving the unborn calf was broken during the birth of the first calf it probably died inutero.
 
The calf born yesterday is alive and kicking, the one I found Saturday was dead . If she did in fact have both of them and the umbilical cord remained intact, is it possible for a 3 day gap in between the calves?
 
cfpinz":1ze0o5na said:
The calf born yesterday is alive and kicking, the one I found Saturday was dead . If she did in fact have both of them and the umbilical cord remained intact, is it possible for a 3 day gap in between the calves?
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I guess it's possible, but not probable.

Have seen as much as a 1/2 day before.
 
We had a Hereford that gave birth to twins that were almost 10 hours apart. A day apart sounds odd, but if the calf was dead, was it born first or last? That may have something to do with how far apart they were born.
 
usually if they dont both die, its the second one that doesnt make it. how do you know the dead one was born friday and could you have not seen the other one until monday? were the calves of the same sex, and did they look alike?
 
The one calf was definately born on Monday, was still wet when I weighed it. It was a BWF heifer, just like mom, the dead calf born 3 days earlier was a solid black bull calf. The mother is a pinzgauer cross heifer, which almost always throws some white. It is very possible that the dead calf came from one of the other four older cows, but none shows any sign of having had a calf. I don't have any past experience with these particular four cows, bought them as short term pairs last winter/spring, sold their calves this fall, and planning on turning them over after they calve.
The vet my wife works for agrees with MikeC, he says it is entirely possible. Unlikely, but this might be that one time in a million when it happens. Or, it could be an old cow trying to extend her meal ticket by trying to get me to keep her till she calves-fat chance! :lol:
 
Going by what you've posted for information, I'd be willing to bet that she had twins - and just didn't come across the other calf until later...as a matter of fact, I'm almost suspicious (seeing as she's a heifer and unexperienced as a mother), that she may have had the one you found dead first (maybe she didn't clean the sac off and it suffocated - just a thought - and she wandered off into another area to have the second and surviving calf (probably settled down after the second one, as no labour pains,etc).

It's not unusual for a twinning cow to have the first calf, clean it up, mother it, then wander a ways off to have the second one (have seen some mature cows take up to an hour to have the second twin...especially if they are big ones) and forget all about the first calf.

As previously posted, have also seen one or the other twin neglected - again not unusual to have the cow only bond with one and not mother one at all (which is why I personally loathe twins at calving time - only good thing about them is that at least you have an 'insurance calf' if another cow loses hers).

Just the way I do things, but if a cow has a small or freemartin calf, I always run the cow into the maternity pen to do an exam if I suspect that there may be another calf.

Also, it is not unusual to have a twinning cow deliver over a week pre-term (which is why I'll be checking cows regularly for signs of calving starting end of next week...even though they're not due till the first week of February).


Anyway, hopefully it was just a dead twin, and not another cow's dead calf.

Take care and good luck with the rest.
 
I know it's a strange situation, but if the heifer indeed gave birth to both calves, I'm 100% certain the second was born Monday, 3 days after the first. This group of cows is in a small, clean lot, about 20 acres or so. I was in the field all day Sat and Sunday building fence, and watched the cattle pretty much all day. When I found the calf Monday, it wasn't fully dry yet and it still had that wobbly, knot-kneed walk about it. And the heifer's bag was full and tight, which it hadn't been all weekend. I guess only time will truly tell, but it's puzzling none the less.
 
I would be willing to bet that CattleAnnie is right. An older cow, as you have stated the rest of your animals are, would be bawling for her calf and running around looking for it. What are your plans for the surviving heifer calf?
 
msscamp-I agree with you and CattleAnnie on that, plus the fact the live calf is so light points me that way, too. I would think the old cows would be worked up, but I bought them for a quick turn-around and that could be one of the reasons, other than age, they were at the market. The little heifer calf is alive and well, mom's taking good care of her. We're keeping a close eye on them both but other than that I don't plan on bothering them unless necessary. I have a heifer from another set of mixed sex twins that I'm going to pull blood and send off for a freemartin test, might pull it off this calf also just for curiosity's sake. Thank you for all your opinions.
 
I dont agree, i think one of the older cows probably had that calf or aborted it. since you dont know the cows history one could very well have been someone's cull for being a poor mother. i would get them up and have them checked. if they all have calves, then you know. then the next thing to do is to have your heifer calf tested to see if shes a freemartin. I dont recall seeing the weight of the dead calf posted, but if it was smaller it could have been aborted and cows that abort may show little or no signs of having aborted as far as mammary development goes. you may or may not notice a messy tail depending on your situation. (if cows are muddy or loose stools from feed for example). also its not uncommon for heifers to have calves early, especially heifer calves. they just tend to be tiny sometimes.

for me, 3 days later, although possible, is just a stretch.
 
A mature cow can pass a 40#? calf and never show any signs. Also, if born dead, lots of moms would just walk away, knowing it's dead.
WHEN did you find the dead calf. I'm unclear on that. You said you worked all day Sat. How do you know she didn't spit out the dead one during the night, than later had the live one?
I have had one set of twins born a full day apart - both alive! Many years ago in Kansas.
Only way to KNOW - is palpate other cows.
 
The first calf was born on Friday, I found it Saturday morning. The second calf was born Monday afternoon, I worked it before it was even dry. The other cows should be calving shortly, if someone doesn't have a calf then we have a culprit. I'm not going to gather up the rest and trailer them for an hour this close to calving. They don't need that stress. Time will tell. ;-)
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":20xkhg2e said:
A mature cow can pass a 40#? calf and never show any signs. Also, if born dead, lots of moms would just walk away, knowing it's dead.
WHEN did you find the dead calf. I'm unclear on that. You said you worked all day Sat. How do you know she didn't spit out the dead one during the night, than later had the live one?
I have had one set of twins born a full day apart - both alive! Many years ago in Kansas.
Only way to KNOW - is palpate other cows.
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We had the same thing here - 24 hours apart, both alive and well. I'll never forget it because the second one was born on April Fool's Day and when I told my mother she was certain I was trying to pull a fast one.;)
 
I was searching the net and found your post. We are still very surprised - you could say unbelieving - about our situation.
A month ago our Charlais cow gave birth to a healthy bull calf but she had no milk for him even though he tried to suck repeatly. We have been feeding him milk replacer so he is growing and becoming a real pet. We had an appointment to take the cow to the abbotoir for hamburger since she is older and had no milk. I cancelled the appointment because she was looking after him and in winter this is an advantage. Tonight when my husband checked on another cow in a different pen which calved this morning - low and behold there is another calf with this first no milk mom! In fact the afterbirth is still cleaning out. There is no doubt that this cow gave birth to 2 calves over a month apart. And now her bag is swollen and full of milk.
So it looks as though there can be a long time frame between births. I have heard of this happening with humans but never with cows!
 
twins- I'm with msscamp on this one, wow! I'm not certain that my cow had twins, there were some other cows in the lot with her that could have had it also. One of these cows was in heat a few days ago so my bet's on her. Next time I go to the market she gets a one-way ticket. With the price of diesel can't afford to make a special trip just for her! :lol: :lol: Anyways, best of luck with your younguns.
 

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