Turn on Haunches

[ropinbulls]

Just lookin for some suggestions on teachin a horse to turn on his haunches and really sit down on his hind end when he stops. The horse collects pretty nice but is still some what on the forehand when he puts on the brakes (or when I do). Thanks guys...
Griffin

 

[chippie]

Are you familiar with B.F. Yeates?

He teaches you to circle your horse spiraling the circle smaller and smaller until the horse steps over (crosses over) it's front legs. The horse's head should be down with it's nose tipped slightly to the inside.It will plant a hind foot when it does it.

You cue with your outside leg while doing it.

Once it takes one cross over step ask it to walk forward then start another spiral, down until it crosses.

You will reach a point where the horse can plant the hind leg and pivot. Once the horse can pivot, they you can work on speed.

Teaching the horse to side pass helps too. The horse learns to move away from your leg.

To teach a horse to stop on it's haunches, be sure that it knows that whoa means stop right now, not a couple of steps later.

Choose the same spot to stop him. When he does not stop on his haunches back him a few steps.

Work slowly at first. After you start increasing speed, if the stop is weak. quickly back a few steps making sure that the horse is soft in the poll and is not leaning on the bit.

I know that some reining trainers have a piece of plywood on their arena fence that they run to for practicing stops.

If you have the horse shod, be sure that it has shoes on all 4 feet. Having shoes on the front feet only will teach a horse to stop on it's front.

I hope that you get some other suggestions and advice because what works for one, may not be best for another.

 

[flaboy-]

Along the same lines as what Buck said, you can fence him. By that I mean run him at a fence, stop, and turn back. Start slow not full speed. An arena works best but I have done it in my round pen.

I am big proponent of one rein training also. Lots of info on that on the web. I worked on it with my bucker. First time I took him to speed in an open field after several training session's in the round pen, I took him to a run, lightly pulled on one rein and said whoa. He stopped on his butt for the first time. :lol:

 

[hayray]

Just lookin for some suggestions on teachin a horse to turn on his haunches and really sit down on his hind end when he stops. The horse collects pretty nice but is still some what on the forehand when he puts on the brakes (or when I do). Thanks guys...
Griffin

Start with the horse standing paraelle to the long side of the rail (this allows the rail to be a blocker to stop the hind end from swinging out) and ask the horse to turn the by moving the forehand around one step at a time. If you don't do it one step at a time it is real hard to stop the hind end from swinging out and loosing your pivot point. You are trying to finish up facing the opposite direction on the rail that you started from - doing a half turn or a 180 degree turn. So basically you are asking the initial turn to start by directing both reins in the direction of desired movement - leading (inside rein) is more of an open rein and the outside rein ends up against the wither like a indirect (neck) rein. If any leg is used it will be the outside leg used behing the girth to block the hind end from swinging out. Moving the hind leg back helps move your weight to your opposite hip - A major rule of horsemanship is to always have your weight in the direction of movement. - Just try one step at a time before doing a continuous movement or adding speed to it.

 

[spinandslide]

Just lookin for some suggestions on teachin a horse to turn on his haunches and really sit down on his hind end when he stops. The horse collects pretty nice but is still some what on the forehand when he puts on the brakes (or when I do). Thanks guys...
Griffin

To get a horse properly turning off his haunches, you need to have total control over every part of that horse's body. A turnaround is basicaly forward motion in place.

There are alot of methods out there for teaching a horse to tunraround..one is the one a previous poster mentioned about the Spiral exercise. Another is standing still and asking your horse to step over, one step at a time..if he walks forward of back, you re=position him where you started, this simply re-itereates that you want him to stay in one place.

Al Dunning also reccomends Doubling along a fence..it's like a rollback into the fence, but also encourages the horse to rock back on his hind and lift up his front end.

As for stopping..the horse has to understand WHOA..period. Start at a walk, ans ask lightly for him to stop..don't touch your reins, simply drop your weight, take your leg off and say WHOA..if he doesn't stop, pick up your reins and re-iterate the WHOA with a good few feet for backing..Im not talking easy backing, make that horse back up. Let him stand..repeat..consitency is the key. Once he's stopping well at the walk, advance to the trot and lope. Do not stop him in the same area all the time, this leads to nasty scotching and once a horse learns this, it's VERY hard to unteach.

Fencing is also a useful tool. Many people are under the impression that to fence a horse, you need to run him into it..not so. The fence is simply there as a visual concept for the horse to understand stop. idealy, the horse is to remain going forward til about 5 feet out, then you sit and say whoa. Fencing is also benifical on an older, seasoned horse. Many of these horses get to scotching after the center marker in a reining pattern, fencing them in warmup gets them thinking they are going to the end of the arena .

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i like the fence method myself works great. i lope along side the fence stop back him a few and turn him it to it. but keep their head natural as possible they tend to sling it up.you'll notice a big difference with just one workout

 

[maesy]

wow! and I thought Clinton Anderson had all the answers...y'all are fabulous! I enjoyed the read. me and my horse aren't at the turn on haunches level yet but golly next time I got a question...I'm askin y'all.

 

[msscamp]

Just lookin for some suggestions on teachin a horse to turn on his haunches and really sit down on his hind end when he stops. The horse collects pretty nice but is still some what on the forehand when he puts on the brakes (or when I do). Thanks guys...
Griffin

The easiest way I've found is to trot or walk the horse out, stop him, make him back up a step or two then, while he's still in a backing stance, turn a 1/4 spin using pressure from the off leg.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i have worked them in the round pen on the fence,with me on the ground working them back and forth behind them. let them lope foward stop turn into panel the other direction stop turn again do this a few times get's them where they have to work on their back end.

 

[bredell]

New here so please don't shoot me! I have had a lot of success with Green Colt roll backs. Now they are not something I would do a ton of but they help the horse by to understand a basic turn around. Basically you walk, trot, lope your horse down a fence (about 3 feet off fence) as for a whoa do a one rein stop into the fence and as your horses head comes around 45 degrees to the fence heading the opposite direction your push him out, your now outside foot at forward, at girth or toward shoulder. Once they understand this you break it down more, refined into a normal roll back, with a stop, 1-2 steps back, bring their head around and jump out into the other direction, then comes the fun stuff inside rolls, 360's, same lead rolls and so on.

 

[hayray]

Just lookin for some suggestions on teachin a horse to turn on his haunches and really sit down on his hind end when he stops. The horse collects pretty nice but is still some what on the forehand when he puts on the brakes (or when I do). Thanks guys...
Griffin

You are getting a lot of posters giving you information on how to do rollbacks and spins,there are some differences in all 3 movements, most did not describe a turn-on-the haunches. I advise teaching a turn-on- the haunches first as a education for reining effects before you add speed to get the other movements, because with just forcing the horse around too fast before teaching the basics like a slow turn on the haunches does you can really mess the turn around up and have a hard time fixing it. The turn on the haunches is where the forehand walks around the hind end and the hind feet stick in place and is done as a half turn (a 180), if you continue the turn for a full turn then the horse should march in time behind and that is called a pirouette, if the inside hind sticks and the outside hind walks around it, it is a spin. A rollback is followed by a slide from a lope and you roll towards the rail and lope out of the half turn, so you are loping out, not walking out through the turn like the turn on the haunches, so your timing of the aids is somewhat different.

 

[Horse Guy]

Just lookin for some suggestions on teachin a horse to turn on his haunches and really sit down on his hind end when he stops. The horse collects pretty nice but is still some what on the forehand when he puts on the brakes (or when I do). Thanks guys...
Griffin

Some basic concepts:

*Some horses are not great natural stoppers. They just aren't built to stop really hard, and no matter how much you school on them, you may never get much more than some basic improvement. Don't insist that a horse be a big stopper, they may not be able to physically hack it.

*At the foundation level, rollbacks are useful in helping a horse learn to set his hocks, but stay free in the front end b/c of the rollback movement. Focus more effort on leaving the rollback with energy than trying to rip the horse into the ground going into the rollback. Hustle him out of there several times and he will start trying harder in the stop portion of the movement. At the juvenile level I tend to just tip that nose, get your inside leg off the horse and drive with my outside leg. I'll use both legs to hustle 'em away from the rollback. Make sure that you rollback into your tracks, and don't let 'em slop through the turn. Start with trotting, then progress to loping.

*Build speed to your stop in a linear fashion. It is much easier to get a smooth deep stop out of a horse that is accelerating.

*Make sure that your horse stays in the appropriate gear and does not "burst" into another gear. Having good speed control is very important.

*Make sure that your pony is staying soft in the face and is holding a reasonably collected frame. Horses that stick their nose out, flatten their back and run like a racehorse don't stop well. Insist that the horse holds some reasonable semblance of frame/collection. His face must be soft. He must willingly break at the poll while driving from behind. Make sure that you are getting adequate impulsion from behind and that by getting face that you are not just causing the horse to dump on his front end. This is very critical. Taking face without impulsion from behind is a very bad thing. If you need to, really drive him up into that frame....then relax him...then insist on frame...then relax him...until you get a reasonable degree of 'self carriage'.

* Sit very quietly, don't telegraph your stop cues by jerking backward or anything like that. Make sure that your horse will stop with the slightest cue. A horse has to be willing to be 'pulled into the ground'. I don't mean RIP him into the ground, I mean get a soft feel until he actuates his hindquarters, breaks at the poll and then signal for the stop. Being soft in the face and giving to the bridle is very important here. Example your cue to stop could simple be taking your legs off the horse, dropping your heels a bit and saying a sooooft 'whoa'. Just b/c your horse is running faster you must not speed up as a rider. Stay soft, sit up, look up and out, ride quietly to your stop no matter how fast you run, and stay fluid and back just enough so that you do not get dashboarded.

The rundown is key to the stop. Make sure that your horse is running free and is soft. Practice at all different speeds and stopping places. Don't bother stopping (at first) if that horse is not driving from behind soft in the face and neck, and accelerating. I sometimes loosen a pony in my rundowns by cranking their head a bit from side to side. NOT to your boot, probable just 6" each way laterally as they run. Then ask for the soft break at the poll as well. If your horse is stiff and elevated during his run, he won't stop well. You need to insist on softness through the length of the rundown to the stop. I don't mind if a horse elevates a bit, but I do not want it to be a motivated stiff neck. That pony needs to learn to run and stop in frame without getting too worried or pi$$ed.

* The best videos out there are by Andrea Fappani and Shawn Flarida/Craigh Schmersal.

Anyway im out of time, but there's a few ideas. If I dont get slamed on the horse slaughter thread I might come back on here and sling some more bull.

 

[dewey]

* The best videos out there are by Andrea Fappani and Shawn Flarida/Craigh Schmersal.

Anyway im out of time, but there's a few ideas. If I dont get slamed on the horse slaughter thread I might come back on here and sling some more bull.[/quote]

sometimes you have to bow up and answer what you get started. running off and hideing isnt goin to solve nothing. running off because someone answers you in a way that is not agreeing with you may look like you have a yellow streak in you to some? if you say it have the backbone to back up what you say if you honestly believe in what you say. from what i read in the other post i think you are an animal rights person. sometimes one has to think with their heads and their heart on things instead of only with their heart.

 

[Horse Guy]

"sometimes you have to bow up and answer what you get started. running off and hideing isnt goin to solve nothing. running off because someone answers you in a way that is not agreeing with you may look like you have a yellow streak in you to some? if you say it have the backbone to back up what you say if you honestly believe in what you say. from what i read in the other post i think you are an animal rights person. sometimes one has to think with their heads and their heart on things instead of only with their heart."

The reason im not to worried about your oppinion is because I suspect your not even in the industry. Plus this is a cattle forum so your probable going to think that you are right because without a doubht more people on here are going to agree with you no matter what I say and its just going to turn into a popularity contest or worse yet a name calling contest. Example your already calling me yellow and an animal rights person and we all know when somebody says animal rights everybody thinks PETA.
Look here are just some of the people in the industry that are not whores for the PMU industry that dont agree with you.
American Walking Pony Association
The American Holsteiner Horse Association, Inc.
The American Sulphur Horse Association
American Indian Horse Registry
Blue Horse Charities
Campaigning For Barbaro
Churchill Downs Incorporated
Eaton & Thorne
Eaton Sales, Inc.
Fasig-Tipton Company, Inc.
Hambletonian Society, Inc.
Horse Industry Partners
Hughs Management
International Pleasure Walking Horse Registry
Keeneland Association Inc.
Magna Entertainment Corp.
National Show Horse Registry
National Steeplechase Association, Inc.
National Thoroughbred Racing Association
National Walking Horse Association
New Jersey Racing Commission
New Jersey Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association
New York Racing Association
New York State Thoroughbred Racing and Development Fund Corporation
New York Thoroughbred Breeders, Inc.
Ocala Breeder's Sales Company (OBS)
Palomino Horse Association, Int.
Racetrack Chaplaincy of America
Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau
Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation
United States Eventing Association

Horse Industry Leaders
Josephine Abercrombie – Owner, Pin Oak Stud
Joe L. Allbritton – Owner, Lazy Lane Farms, Inc.
Peggy Augustus – Owner, Keswick Farm
Niall and Stephanie Brennan – Niall Brennan Stables
Nadia Sanan Briggs – Padua Stables
Maggie O. Bryant – Locust Hill Farm
W. Cothran "Cot" Campbell – Dogwood Stables
Norman Casse – Chairman of the Ocala Breeder's Sales Company (OBS)
Nick and Jaqui de Meric – Nick de Meric Bloodstock
Richard L. Duchossois – Chairman, Arlington Park
Tracy & Carol Farmer – Owners, Shadowlawn Farm
John Fort – Peachtree Racing Stable
John Gaines – the late founder of the Breeder's Cup World Thoroughbred Championship
Gainesway Farm
GaWaNi Pony Boy
Randy Hartley – Hartley/De Renzo Thoroughbreds
Charles E. Hayward – President and CEO, New York Racing Association, Inc.
John Hettinger – Owner, Akindale Farm, Principal stockholder Fasig-Tipton Co, Inc., Chairman Emeritus Grayson-Jockey Club Research Foundation, Trustee NY Racing Association
Tom Meeker – Churchill Downs
Reiley McDonald – Partner, Eaton Sales
Herb and Ellen Moelis – Candyland Farm
Nick Nicholson – President and Chief Executive Officer, Keeneland Association
Madeline Paulson Pickens – Owner/Breeder
George Stout – National Cutting Horse Association Members Hall of Fame
Frank Stronach – CEO, Magna Entertainment
Dan and Jocelyn Sumerel – Sumerel Training and Therapy
Becky Thomas – Sequel Bloodstock
D.G. Van Clief, Jr. – NTRA Commissioner, CEO & Breeders' Cup President
Walnut Hall Limited
Donna Ward
Marylou Whitney and John Hendrickson – owners of BIRDSTONE, 2004 Belmont Stakes winner
Russell Williams – VP, Hanover Shoe Farm

Kentucky Derby Winning Owners
Roy and Gretchen Jackson (BARBARO – 2006)
Jerry and Ann Moss (GIACOMO – 2005)
Patricia Chapman (SMARTY JONES - 2004)
Sackatoga Stable, Jack Knowlton, Managing Partner (FUNNY CIDE - 2003)
John and Debby Oxley (MONARCHOS - 2001)
Beverly Lewis (CHARISMATIC-1999, SILVER CHARM - 1997)
Mike Pegram (REAL QUIET - 1998)
William T. Young, Jr, Overbrook Farm LLC (GRINDSTONE - 1996)
Joseph and Eileen Cornacchia (GO FOR GIN - 1994, STRIKE THE GOLD - 1991)
Bill Condren (GO FOR GIN - 1994, STRIKE THE GOLD - 1991)
Mrs. Paul Mellon (SEA HERO - 1993)
Arthur and Staci Hancock (SUNDAY SILENCE - 1989, GATO DEL SOL - 1982)
Howard Keck, Jr. (FERDINAND - 1986)
Dell Hancock (SWALE - 1984)
Bert and Diana Firestone (GENUINE RISK - 1980)
Penny Chenery (SECRETARIAT - 1973, RIVA RIDGE - 1972)

Thoroughbred Trainers and Jockeys
Jerry Bailey – Hall of Fame Jockey
W.A. "Jimmy" Croll, Jr – Hall of Fame Trainer
Neil Drysdale - Hall of Fame Trainer
Julie Krone – Hall of Fame Jockey
Chris McCarron - Hall of Fame Jockey
Richard Mandella - Hall of Fame Trainer
Gary Stevens - Hall of Fame Jockey
Nick Zito – Two-time Kentucky Derby Winning and Hall of Fame Trainer

Press
Horse Connection Magazine
Living Legends Magazine
Natural Horse Magazine
The Gaited Horse
The United States Harness Writers Association

 

[ALACOWMAN]

"sometimes you have to bow up and answer what you get started. running off and hideing isnt goin to solve nothing. running off because someone answers you in a way that is not agreeing with you may look like you have a yellow streak in you to some? if you say it have the backbone to back up what you say if you honestly believe in what you say. from what i read in the other post i think you are an animal rights person. sometimes one has to think with their heads and their heart on things instead of only with their heart."

The reason im not to worried about your oppinion is because I suspect your not even in the industry. Plus this is a cattle forum so your probable going to think that you are right because without a doubht

• more people on here are going to agree with you no matter what I say and its just going to turn into a popularity contest or

worse yet a name calling contest. Example your already calling me yellow and an animal rights person and we all know when somebody says animal rights everybody thinks PETA.
Look here are just some of the people in the industry that are not whores for the PMU industry that dont agree with you.
American Walking Pony Association
The American Holsteiner Horse Association, Inc.
The American Sulphur Horse Association
American Indian Horse Registry
Blue Horse Charities
Campaigning For Barbaro
Churchill Downs Incorporated
Eaton & Thorne
Eaton Sales, Inc.
Fasig-Tipton Company, Inc.
Hambletonian Society, Inc.
Horse Industry Partners
Hughs Management
International Pleasure Walking Horse Registry
Keeneland Association Inc.
Magna Entertainment Corp.
National Show Horse Registry
National Steeplechase Association, Inc.
National Thoroughbred Racing Association
National Walking Horse Association
New Jersey Racing Commission
New Jersey Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association
New York Racing Association
New York State Thoroughbred Racing and Development Fund Corporation
New York Thoroughbred Breeders, Inc.
Ocala Breeder's Sales Company (OBS)
Palomino Horse Association, Int.
Racetrack Chaplaincy of America
Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau
Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation
United States Eventing Association

Horse Industry Leaders
Josephine Abercrombie – Owner, Pin Oak Stud
Joe L. Allbritton – Owner, Lazy Lane Farms, Inc.
Peggy Augustus – Owner, Keswick Farm
Niall and Stephanie Brennan – Niall Brennan Stables
Nadia Sanan Briggs – Padua Stables
Maggie O. Bryant – Locust Hill Farm
W. Cothran "Cot" Campbell – Dogwood Stables
Norman Casse – Chairman of the Ocala Breeder's Sales Company (OBS)
Nick and Jaqui de Meric – Nick de Meric Bloodstock
Richard L. Duchossois – Chairman, Arlington Park
Tracy & Carol Farmer – Owners, Shadowlawn Farm
John Fort – Peachtree Racing Stable
John Gaines – the late founder of the Breeder's Cup World Thoroughbred Championship
Gainesway Farm
GaWaNi Pony Boy
Randy Hartley – Hartley/De Renzo Thoroughbreds
Charles E. Hayward – President and CEO, New York Racing Association, Inc.
John Hettinger – Owner, Akindale Farm, Principal stockholder Fasig-Tipton Co, Inc., Chairman Emeritus Grayson-Jockey Club Research Foundation, Trustee NY Racing Association
Tom Meeker – Churchill Downs
Reiley McDonald – Partner, Eaton Sales
Herb and Ellen Moelis – Candyland Farm
Nick Nicholson – President and Chief Executive Officer, Keeneland Association
Madeline Paulson Pickens – Owner/Breeder
George Stout – National Cutting Horse Association Members Hall of Fame
Frank Stronach – CEO, Magna Entertainment
Dan and Jocelyn Sumerel – Sumerel Training and Therapy
Becky Thomas – Sequel Bloodstock
D.G. Van Clief, Jr. – NTRA Commissioner, CEO & Breeders' Cup President
Walnut Hall Limited
Donna Ward
Marylou Whitney and John Hendrickson – owners of BIRDSTONE, 2004 Belmont Stakes winner
Russell Williams – VP, Hanover Shoe Farm

Kentucky Derby Winning Owners
Roy and Gretchen Jackson (BARBARO – 2006)
Jerry and Ann Moss (GIACOMO – 2005)
Patricia Chapman (SMARTY JONES - 2004)
Sackatoga Stable, Jack Knowlton, Managing Partner (FUNNY CIDE - 2003)
John and Debby Oxley (MONARCHOS - 2001)
Beverly Lewis (CHARISMATIC-1999, SILVER CHARM - 1997)
Mike Pegram (REAL QUIET - 1998)
William T. Young, Jr, Overbrook Farm LLC (GRINDSTONE - 1996)
Joseph and Eileen Cornacchia (GO FOR GIN - 1994, STRIKE THE GOLD - 1991)
Bill Condren (GO FOR GIN - 1994, STRIKE THE GOLD - 1991)
Mrs. Paul Mellon (SEA HERO - 1993)
Arthur and Staci Hancock (SUNDAY SILENCE - 1989, GATO DEL SOL - 1982)
Howard Keck, Jr. (FERDINAND - 1986)
Dell Hancock (SWALE - 1984)
Bert and Diana Firestone (GENUINE RISK - 1980)
Penny Chenery (SECRETARIAT - 1973, RIVA RIDGE - 1972)

Thoroughbred Trainers and Jockeys
Jerry Bailey – Hall of Fame Jockey
W.A. "Jimmy" Croll, Jr – Hall of Fame Trainer
Neil Drysdale - Hall of Fame Trainer
Julie Krone – Hall of Fame Jockey
Chris McCarron - Hall of Fame Jockey
Richard Mandella - Hall of Fame Trainer
Gary Stevens - Hall of Fame Jockey
Nick Zito – Two-time Kentucky Derby Winning and Hall of Fame Trainer

Press
Horse Connection Magazine
Living Legends Magazine
Natural Horse Magazine
The Gaited Horse
The United States Harness Writers Association

thats bull ive been around horses enough too have a mind of my own and can tell so i dont agree with every one that comes up the pike

 

[dewey]

horse guy

describe your version of being in the industry to me?

i don't know where you are commin up with a name calling popularity contest? i came up with what i did from reading what you typed in your post.

how does grade horses prices effect the price of registered horses? how many packer buyers have you seen at a registered horse sale buying the top of the line horses? some people around this area use to buy poor horses thru the sale barns. worm them get them straightened out and turn them out on oat pastures and bring them back to the sale barn when they got fattened up. some went to the killers some didnt. they went to the highest bidder when they went thru the ring. where is any of that effecting any of the big time horses?

what i get from reading what you post, any horse that is not registered will not ammount to nothing and is a unwanted horse.

i have no idea where you are from? around here the rendering plants do not accept large animals anymore such as cows, horses, hogs, etc. there is a few folks that pick the animals up but they are being transported to land fills and compost facilities. when the compost sites are full they just go into the landfill. most people haul their own animals to the landfill/compost facilities because of the price the folks charge to come get pick them up.