Trimming hooves and foot rot.

[True Grit Farms]

Do you cull cows that need their hoofs trimmed or the one's that you treat for hoof rot? We're unbelievable wet here and I'm expecting some foot issues, just curious as to how others approach foot issues.

 

[Bright Raven]

Wet here too. I don't have an issue with foot rot. I "assume" because of the positive benefits of good mineral.

 

[Silver]

We never trim feet, Grandpa always said if you were gonna trim a cows feet you start right behind the ears. Don't need that passed on.
I may make an exception for a good cow that got foot rot and want to get a few more years out of her. Can't blame that on genetics. But I'll usually just do it at calving time so she can raise the calf before going to her forever home in the fall. In general our cows need to cover a fair bit of territory so the ability to travel is important enough to not want to see bad feet become an issue.

 

[Ebenezer]

Be sure of mineral status: proper iodine and selenium. The SE USA is deficient.

 

[Aaron]

I have trimmed feet on an individual cow to keep them going while raising a calf. I do it once aggressively and they can go for a couple more calves. Has to be an exceptional cow with no other issues though. Otherwise just throw them in the kill pen. Might come up once every 5 years as an issue for me. Always an underlying factor to poor feet, usually genetic - weak pasterns. Very easy to breed out of them when paired with the right bull - done it many times. Don't keep sons out of them as that represents too much risk for propagating the problem, but heifers are ok. I don't trim in general with footrot, only with abscesses.

 

[Stocker Steve]

No foot rot in 2018. Usually get one or two cases per year. You need better mineral if this is a problem.

I have never trimmed feet, but I thinking about starting. Have just sold them but that may be short sighted. Have two limpers that raised whopper feed lot calves this summer.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The question you should be asking, if in a terminal program, is the extra cost of trimming feet, and increased maintenance, off set by her year to year profitability?
If she if just average, then she may not be off setting the cost, and should be culled. She would have to have an above average calf to really make up the difference.
Which then you have to ask yourself, "is the hassel worth it?"

In a seedstock operation...
...cull.

 

[gcreekrch]

They trim feet at the kill plant.

Bull purveyors that knowingly keep bad footed cattle in their herds should be on a public list to avoid.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Do you cull cows that need their hoofs trimmed or the one's that you treat for hoof rot? We're unbelievable wet here and I'm expecting some foot issues, just curious as to how others approach foot issues.

One of our bulls had foot rot last year, as well as a one this year. Both stepped on something, sharp rock, etc, no fault of their own. We brought them in, cleaned the hoof thoroughly, put a pan in the chute with epson salt (lots) and warm water, soaked for 10 minutes, gave them a shot of LA-300, and kept them confined for a few days, they healed right up. Since Jan 1, 2018 we have had just shy of 80 inches of rain. 80 inches!!!! We have done everything to keep the cattle out of the mud short of building a dock, but no matter what we do, it stays muddy. Unless we had a new 100-acre field to move them to daily, there is going to be mud and lots of it. Don't throw away a good animal because of this crazy weather. If an animal has consistent foot problems during dry and wet conditions, then that is another story.

My advice, use electric fence and keep them on the move, try to move your hay rings often as well if you use them. We feed grain to our cattle, and it has Biotin in it to help with the hooves. Can't say it does the job, but the foot rot has subsided. Try to keep them away from any area where they could get a cut, easier said than done, but think about it, small cut, they stand in mud and manure, then it gets infected. A small thing becomes a big headache, and even worse for the animal. Again, not the animal's fault. Sh...t happens! Take a look at this video.

https://youtu.be/ZCV4Bv6DLYo

 

[CattleMan1920]

No foot rot in 2018. Usually get one or two cases per year. You need better mineral if this is a problem.

I have never trimmed feet, but I thinking about starting. Have just sold them but that may be short sighted. Have two limpers that raised whopper feed lot calves this summer.

If you do trim the feet on a cow you want to keep, that is otherwise a good cow, you may want to try breeding her to a sire like Hoover Dam, or SAV President. They may or may not correct foot issues, but chances are good that the next gen will improve. It's definitely ideal to have an animal without foot issues though, and you should make every attempt to either cull her or like I said above, breed to sires that have excellent feet.

 

[CattleMan1920]

No foot rot in 2018. Usually get one or two cases per year. You need better mineral if this is a problem.

I have never trimmed feet, but I thinking about starting. Have just sold them but that may be short sighted. Have two limpers that raised whopper feed lot calves this summer.

Agree, but also somewhat disagree. The two animals that we treated for foot rot are on a high-quality mineral program and get Multimin 90 three times a year. They simply walked across a creek bed, and sliced their hoof. The hoof was most likely extremely soft from the, oh 20 plus days of rain and snow, back to rain, and then endless mud. Hoof never had a chance to get dry. Imagine your walking in soaking wet boots, day in day out, think about what your feet would look like. I'm in no way advocating bad feet, but when the conditions get really bad as they have been, consider what the animal is dealing with.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I use Multimin, once in a while, but Multimin is not for feet.
Better mineral has more iodine than you can buy in a farm store mix.

 

[talltimber]

What levels of iodine, selenium and biotin are we talking about to be good levels?

I have a couple of cows with bad feet that occasionally gimp around. They raise good calves, one raising twins this year, that I plan to keep a while longer.

I usually have a case or two of foot rot every year, knock on wood, but this fall I haven't. I switched to WnRain hi mag availa 4 a few months ago, so I'm wanting to compare the levels of it to what I was using. I have also thought about adding something to the mineral myself to help with it before I switched to availa 4

 

[Stocker Steve]

Our forages are high in P&K. We do a hand mix given to us by Gerald Fry some years ago. Cheaper and better results for us than red store bought blends. He said store bought does not have enough iodine for feet because of concerns about iodine in diary milk, and not enough copper due to concerns about death wish sheep. We do see a few Simi x with red tinged hair coats. Some breeds just need more selenium. Multimin corrects in about 3 weeks if it is a concern.

I will double check for the recipe wts.. By volume into a 5 dollar 50# bag of plain mixing salt:
2 cans copper sulfate
1 can selenium
1/2 can of iodine

 

[Aaron]

Our forages are high in P&K. We do a hand mix given to us by Gerald Fry some years ago. Cheaper and better results for us than red store bought blends. He said store bought does not have enough iodine for feet because of concerns about iodine in diary milk, and not enough copper due to concerns about death wish sheep. We do see a few Simi x with red tinged hair coats. Some breeds just need more selenium. Multimin corrects in about 3 weeks if it is a concern.

I will double check for the recipe wts.. By volume into a 5 dollar 50# bag of plain mixing salt:
2 cans copper sulfate
1 can selenium
1/2 can of iodine

What is your source of selenium and what kind/size of can is referenced?

 

[Silver]

Our forages are high in P&K. We do a hand mix given to us by Gerald Fry some years ago. Cheaper and better results for us than red store bought blends. He said store bought does not have enough iodine for feet because of concerns about iodine in diary milk, and not enough copper due to concerns about death wish sheep. We do see a few Simi x with red tinged hair coats. Some breeds just need more selenium. Multimin corrects in about 3 weeks if it is a concern.

I will double check for the recipe wts.. By volume into a 5 dollar 50# bag of plain mixing salt:
2 cans copper sulfate
1 can selenium
1/2 can of iodine

Seems like there should be some zinc in there too....

 

[Stocker Steve]

Seems like there should be some zinc in there too....

Some dairies here need zinc supplement to prevent leg problems in confinement, others don't. Of course Multimin 90 has zinc in it. Our soil tests show that we are medium to high for zinc. I don't see a problem in my beef herd that it would resolve.

I forage test one to three fields per year. High stocking density and inter seeding legumes has driven our forage P&K values way way up, but we are still low on copper. Turning red tinged cows black with a Multimin 90 injection supports that we are still low on copper.

In theory we have their forage tested and then have a custom mineral mix designed around only the minerals they are short on. Tried this some years ago but the local supplier rep told me I was not big enough. Seems like he only wanted to sell what he had on hand.

Some folks that are very successful with soil regeneration have quit providing any mineral to their beef cattle. :shock: Its in the forage. :idea: Look up the mineral content of Canadian thistle and chicory if you are curious. Tap roots matter.

 

[Silver]

In theory we have their forage tested and then have a custom mineral mix designed around only the minerals they are short on.

Now that makes sense.

 

[gcreekrch]

In theory we have their forage tested and then have a custom mineral mix designed around only the minerals they are short on.

Now that makes sense.

That is what our custom mineral provides.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

On the question about trimming hooves.
If the animal needs it's feet trimmed because of an injury and you can get them sound enough to get around well, there is no need to cull.
If the animal needs it's feet trimmed because of genetically poor hooves - cull. I have a couple of cows that get curled in pointed toes, and we snip them. These cows happen to be great momma cows, so I put embryos in them. Raise a great calf.
Edit: I am 100% AI, so if the embryo's don't take, they don't get bred by the clean up and they get shipped when I wean her calf.