Too much diversity ?

[usernametaken]

Is there a point that you reach where crossbreeding becomes redundant ?

For instance, we all know, if you breed a hereford x angus you get a black baldie, a well thought of cross for vigor, growth, etc.

Now if you take the black baldie heifer and breed her to another breed, say a charolais, yes, you will probably get a bigger calf because the charolais breed is generally bigger, but do you actually get more vigor through the cross.

If you breed that black baldie to N devon and you get about the same size cattle are still increasing vigor and growth or is there a limit to it ? Is it any more vigor than what you got with the first cross of the two purebreds - the angus and the hereford ?

Thanks,
Melissa

 

[novatech]

If you really want to increase move to texas and go with brahman. But then you will reach your limit there also and have to move back and start over. If you don,t want to make the move try a contental. This is where cross breeding has a problem. eventually you must buy replacement heifers or raise your own.
Maybe this is where good line bred momma cows come in handy. All you need to do is change out bulls for F1 or replacement heifers.

 

[usernametaken]

If you really want to increase move to texas and go with brahman. But then you will reach your limit there also and have to move back and start over. If you don,t want to make the move try a contental. This is where cross breeding has a problem. eventually you must buy replacement heifers or raise your own.
Maybe this is where good line bred momma cows come in handy. All you need to do is change out bulls for F1 or replacement heifers.

Husband #1 had us move 22 times in 5 years, at which point I was done with him and done with moving. That's why I'm here. It's the last stop of the 22 times. :lol:

Can you explain more on your statement " ... try a continental. That is where cross-breeding has a problem. Eventually you must buy replacement heifers or raise your own."

Why is continental a problem ?
I do agree with good line bred moma cows come in handy.

 

[KNERSIE]

To maximise heterosis you need to use all three types of cattle, british, continental and bos indicus. The further the breeds are genetically apart from each the more the heterosis.

A practical example would be to use F1 hereford x brahman cows and use a charolais bull on them. The resulting calf will be 50% char, 25% herf and 25% brahman or 50% continental, 25% british and 25% bos inducus.

If you would just continue to change the bull breed every few years you'll end up with such a mongrelised genetic base that there would be very little if any heterosis.

 

[novatech]

If you really want to increase move to texas and go with brahman. But then you will reach your limit there also and have to move back and start over. If you don,t want to make the move try a contental. This is where cross breeding has a problem. eventually you must buy replacement heifers or raise your own.
Maybe this is where good line bred momma cows come in handy. All you need to do is change out bulls for F1 or replacement heifers.

Husband #1 had us move 22 times in 5 years, at which point I was done with him and done with moving. That's why I'm here. It's the last stop of the 22 times. :lol:

Can you explain more on your statement " ... try a continental. That is where cross-breeding has a problem. Eventually you must buy replacement heifers or raise your own."

Why is continental a problem ?
I do agree with good line bred moma cows come in handy.

Sorry, I did not mean that continental had a problem. Knersie explains it very well.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

There was a study a couple of years ago indicating that among the non-Brahman breeds, Herefords were the most genetically different of the mainline breeds, providing more heterosis across the spectrum. If I remember correctly, Gelbveigh may have been the breed that was complemented most of all by the cross with Hereford.

If you think about it, this makes sense, because many of the breeds have come to offer a black hide, and most or all of them did it utilizing Angus genetics. It only stands to reason that future heterosis from crossing with Angus or another breed that turned black the same way, would be compromised, since the Angus genetics however slight, are still already in the mix.

 

[usernametaken]

To maximise heterosis you need to use all three types of cattle, british, continental and bos indicus. The further the breeds are genetically apart from each the more the heterosis.

A practical example would be to use F1 hereford x brahman cows and use a charolais bull on them. The resulting calf will be 50% char, 25% herf and 25% brahman or 50% continental, 25% british and 25% bos inducus.

If you would just continue to change the bull breed every few years you'll end up with such a mongrelised genetic base that there would be very little if any heterosis.

Thanks Knersie for the good explanation. I tend to forget about the 3 "types" of cattle.

And Novatech, no problem.

Melissa

 

[usernametaken]

There was a study a couple of years ago indicating that among the non-Brahman breeds, Herefords were the most genetically different of the mainline breeds, providing more heterosis across the spectrum. If I remember correctly, Gelbveigh may have been the breed that was complemented most of all by the cross with Hereford.

If you think about it, this makes sense, because many of the breeds have come to offer a black hide, and most or all of them did it utilizing Angus genetics. It only stands to reason that future heterosis from crossing with Angus or another breed that turned black the same way, would be compromised, since the Angus genetics however slight, are still already in the mix.

Yes, with the Angus factor it does make sense.

 

[dun]

If I remember correctly, Gelbveigh may have been the breed that was complemented most of all by the cross with Hereford.

In my opinion that particular F! would be the best mooma cows possible. Gelbieh Red Angus are really good, but I honestly think Hereford would be better. That's the reason I've been trying to find some senior Hereford cows to use a red Gelbvieh bull on.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Dun, I believe it was the F1 cow that was supposed to be so impressive from that cross. I think there was a huge leap in the fertility of the cow, and the number of calves that survived to weaning versus the pure Gelbveigh. It has been a long time since I read it, and I do not claim to remember it all in accurate detail, and I shudder to think of finding it again.

I'm certainly not desirous of bringing the wrath of the Gelbveigh folks down on my head either.

 

[preston39]

If I remember correctly, Gelbveigh may have been the breed that was complemented most of all by the cross with Hereford.

In my opinion that particular F! would be the best mooma cows possible. Gelbieh Red Angus are really good, but I honestly think Hereford would be better. That's the reason I've been trying to find some senior Hereford cows to use a red Gelbvieh bull on.

=========
dun,
Why..."senior"? As in age..or?

 

[usernametaken]

Want to apologize to the group for being somewhat redundant. I realize now had I read the topic on F1 Bulls it would have covered much of what I was asking here. Sorry I didn't read first.

 

[dun]

If I remember correctly, Gelbveigh may have been the breed that was complemented most of all by the cross with Hereford.

In my opinion that particular F! would be the best mooma cows possible. Gelbieh Red Angus are really good, but I honestly think Hereford would be better. That's the reason I've been trying to find some senior Hereford cows to use a red Gelbvieh bull on.

=========
dun,
Why..."senior"? As in age..or?

Older cows that have proven calf rearing abilitys, plus older cows are usually a lot cheaper.

 

[Aero]

there would be very little if any heterosis.

i think you would have plenty of heterosis, but with no predictability or consistency