To plow or not to plow?

[Douglas]

I am renvoating a old fescue pasture that had a lot of common bermuda and bahia. The area was also my winter feeding area and the ground is very hard. I have incorporated lime and fertilizer but, after a couple disking it seems way too rough to sow new seed.

Would you just keep disking or would you bottom plow to get a smooth seedbed?
Everything is dead but still a lot of residue and sod especially where the thick bermuda was.
Will it level itself out over time?

 

[novatech]

Has it rained on it yet? Sometimes the rain helps depending on what type of ground. Disk again after a good rain. Put a harrow behind the disk or a drag of some type. Plowing will only make things worse.

 

[Douglas]

No it has not rained and the ground was pretty wet when i started but dry now. We are expecting a half inch tomorrow. Do you think the rain will soften up the clods?

 

[Douglas]

Has it rained on it yet? Sometimes the rain helps depending on what type of ground. Disk again after a good rain. Put a harrow behind the disk or a drag of some type. Plowing will only make things worse.

What about running over with the cultipacker at some point

 

[dun]

I would keep disking lightly rather then plow. With disking you will turn some of the lime and fertilizer lower in the root zone, plowing it will turn it way under the root zone. A spike harrow after light disking may smooth it out depending on how rough it is

 

[ROB]

No it has not rained and the ground was pretty wet when i started but dry now. We are expecting a half inch tomorrow. Do you think the rain will soften up the clods?

sounds to me like that may have been the root cause of your problem. discing when wet will always lead to problems. you might try harrowing a couple of times after a rain (and after it has had ample time to dry) to bust up the clods. if the ground was disced deep, and it is not too packed...a brillion seeder would do an excellent job of busting up some clods and forcing the rest below the surface.

i had a similar plot of cloddy ground this year that i wanted to try out some pearl millet on. it had been disced once, field cultivated once, and then seeded. i would never have thought that the soil would have looked like an onion bed after using the brillion seeder---but it sure enough did.

ROB

 

[Jogeephus]

I found myself disagreeing with some of the advice you were given and was at first puzzled cause I know the posters giving you advice always give good sound advice but then I thought about it some and realized we all have different soil types and what works for one may not work for another. I'd suggest you give a little more detailed information on what type of soil you are dealing with and then I think you will get a better answer. Just a suggestion.

 

[novatech]

I found myself disagreeing with some of the advice you were given and was at first puzzled cause I know the posters giving you advice always give good sound advice but then I thought about it some and realized we all have different soil types and what works for one may not work for another. I'd suggest you give a little more detailed information on what type of soil you are dealing with and then I think you will get a better answer. Just a suggestion.

Good thinking. Around here the soil varies from pasture to pasture and requires different methods for tillage depending on the type of soil and how deep the top soil is. Even the time since it was last deep plowed may be a factor. Over tillage, breaking down to a fine powder, can have adverse effects on some soils.
I have been planting oats clover, and rye in a 15 acre plot with an old pasture dream. In that one 15 acre plot I observed 3 distinctly different soil types. It went from fine sand to sandy loam to clay. If I had to prepare a seed bed in that plot it would take 3 different methods for that single area. Even different types of clays would require different methods.

 

[Jogeephus]

I don't think I would even know how to begin if it were clay since all we have is sandy loams. A chisel plow to break up and soften then harrowing with a harrow and mold board will level it up as smooth as a babies hiney. I do try to get it as smooth as possible cause those lumps and bumps can be felt for years to come.

 

[Douglas]

My soil on this site is a fairly heavy loam. I have a variety of stuff from sandy to rocky to heavy loan. I have picked the heavier areas for fescue. I was disking some more yesterday and believe the problem is not so much clods of dirt from it being wet, but clods of dirt around the roots of dead grass sod that won't let go. I only sprayed the site around labor day and should have done it much sooner. I have sufficient loose soil but hate to have such an bumpy surface for the future. I am wondering if a couple trips with the cultipacker after sowing the seed would work. What i probably need is a rotary tiller.

On another site I sprayed much earlier and broke it up in July and it was in fine shape. It is supposed to rain today and maybe that will help because i think i could disk forever and it would still be there. What happened is I planned to renovate about 8 acres this year and 8 next. The state came up with a cost sharing program late this summer for pasture renovation as part of drought relief monies and i decided to do it all. I have small equipment so i probably bit off more than i can chew. It started raining in late august, then we had about 9 inches form a hurricane in early Sept. and it just kept raining until a couple weeks ago. Finished up the easy part and now working on the hard stuff.

 

[alabama]

After a rain or two and some time for the roots to rot a little it should level out fine. One thing I have noticed about small equipment is that it does not do as good a job as larger. With 16 acres to do it might do you well to hire a local farmer to run a 10 to 20 foot disk across it several times with a drag behind it. Then after a few rains and some drying time plant it with a dril seeder.

 

[Douglas]

I have been think, alabama, about paying someone to run a big land cultivator over it.

 

[alabama]

I have been think, alabama, about paying someone to run a big land cultivator over it.

With the price of fuel andwear on your tractor it may be cheaper and better to hire it done. Good luck

 

[gertguy]

running a disk over it to much will just create a hardpan. you ought to run a chisel plow threw it then disk and field cultivate, you may have to much thatch and this may not be possibly.

 

[novatech]

Her is the way we prepare a seed bed in virgin soil, in sandy loam or clay, in our area. First we plow with either a mold board or a heavy disk plow. We plow to a depth of about 6". This is done in the fall for spring planting. The stubble will rot over winter. A cover crop of rye and clover is sometimes broad cast planted on top of the plowed ground. I may or may not allow cows to graze. The following spring the forage will be turned back under with a harrow disk and used as green manure. The soil is usually still soft enough for the lighter harrow disk to work. The green manure breaks down rapidly. After a couple of weeks we may dick again lightly with a drag behind it to level. Some seed requires that the seed be precompacted. If so this is done and the seed is spread on top and the soil is compacted again. Other seed is sown with a drill and compacted afterward.
Having said the above, rye and clover do not require any deep plowing. If you get an inch deep it is more than sufficient for planting. You can get a pretty good stand with no tillage at all. Just broadcast on existing pasture.
As a side note, due to the cost of fuel and the cost of equipment I have been researching systems of planting that do not require deep plowing. For an example there are clovers and grasses with deep tap roots that when they dye off provide the aeration for the soil. Bluestem and others may be able to provide more info. on this type of system.
And yet another note for those that think that the clover keeps you out of using fertilizer. Clover requires a fair amount of phosphorus and potash. If those requirements are not met your clover stand may be way short. Legumes will only produce Nitrogen.