Timed AI and Short Cycle

[3waycross]

The gal who AI'd my cows last year did a timed AI on them. We waited 2 weeks for even one of them to cycle natural and coming off the fescue they just would not cycle. So, we timed them with Lute and GNRH and bred them on the money according to her. Then turned them out with the bull in a couple of days.

So here's where it gets weird. Any of them that was going to calve to the AI should have calved one week ago. Remembering that these are Gelbvieh cows and they usually calve early rather than late listen to this. One of those cows dropped a 68lb heifer calf tonight and near as I can tell it's out of my Angus bull and not the AI ,GV bull.

Anybody seen a cow cycle 7 or 8 days after a timed deal like this?

 

[Kingfisher]

So here's where it gets weird. Gets? I think you got a better Bull than your taking credit for...............or your math is off...............

 

[3waycross]

So here's where it gets weird. Gets? I think you got a better Bull than your taking credit for...............or your math is off...............

Well I don't think my bull can shoot it across the pasture and I am dam sure my math is not off. I have a pretty good idea what happened but I would like to hear other folks thoughts before I say anything.

Read the last line of my post. To be fair I should have said the Angus is my cleanup bull. She was turned out with him maybe 2 days after she was AI'd

 

[dun]

A couple of years ago the dairy synced a bunch of heifers and time AIed them. A couple of days after the timed AI I had to start AIing them on their observed heats. Better then half of them came in after the timed AI. Of those that didn;t about half or less settled. All but one of the ones I AIed on observed heats.
Rather then the whole CIDR and shots deal from now on I'll go back to my old method. A shot of GnRH folled 7 days later by PGF2 and breed on observed heats.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Yep Dun. Thats my thoughts as well.

 

[3waycross]

Dun that's exactly what I think happened. The protocol bumped them into gear but took a week for her to happen. The other two apparently took another cycle as neither one of them is springing much if at all.

 

[dun]

Dun that's exactly what I think happened. The protocol bumped them into gear but took a week for her to happen. The other two apparently took another cycle as neither one of them is springing much if at all.

I sometimed wonder if we aren;t getting so fancy with trying to find short cuts that Ol Ma Nautre is saying "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature". We did the sync and timed breeding deal on some cows this year. Some we had to AI a day after giving the GnRH so there is 2 units of semen. Ended up at 100% for the cows we synced but even though they were bred within in 3 days (the repeat breedings screwed things up) they're still scattered over a 2 week perioed and we
re right at about the smae point of calving that we were in the past when we bred on observed heats without shot/CIDRs etc.
This year it's back to the old fashined way, no shots and observed heats

 

[3waycross]

Dun that's exactly what I think happened. The protocol bumped them into gear but took a week for her to happen. The other two apparently took another cycle as neither one of them is springing much if at all.

I sometimed wonder if we aren;t getting so fancy with trying to find short cuts that Ol Ma Nautre is saying "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature". We did the sync and timed breeding deal on some cows this year. Some we had to AI a day after giving the GnRH so there is 2 units of semen. Ended up at 100% for the cows we synced but even though they were bred within in 3 days (the repeat breedings screwed things up) they're still scattered over a 2 week perioed and we
re right at about the smae point of calving that we were in the past when we bred on observed heats without shot/CIDRs etc.
This year it's back to the old fashined way, no shots and observed heats

That's exactly what we were trying to do but they were debilitated some from the fescue and we decided that we would try to jumpstart them with the Protocol and maybe get lucky with one or more of them catching. It worked just not the way we wanted. Either that or I have a 65lb heifer that is 8 days late from the AI and I don't think that is what it is. I will watch her develop and if she shows more GV traits than balancer I will have her tested for parentage.

 

[dun]

Either that or I have a 65lb heifer that is 8 days late from the AI and I don't think that is what it is. I will watch her develop and if she shows more GV traits than balancer I will have her tested for parentage.

Could happen. One cow had a 14 day late 120 bulls calf last year, this year she had a 80 pound heifer calf 8 days late

 

[3waycross]

Either that or I have a 65lb heifer that is 8 days late from the AI and I don't think that is what it is. I will watch her develop and if she shows more GV traits than balancer I will have her tested for parentage.

Could happen. One cow had a 14 day late 120 bulls calf last year, this year she had a 80 pound heifer calf 8 days late

I doubt that is the case. This little thing looks just like my Angus bull she is for sure not 8 days late.

 

[cow pollinater]

I breed literally thousands of sync cows each year and the most common "off-cycle" that I see is nine-eleven days. I'd say it's about five percent of the return heats. Cows have two ovaries and sync programs are designed to effect one ovary. Since we are giving artificial cues, it makes since that sometimes mother natures cues to the other ovary are stonger... Nine days is about equivalant to a cow that has started building a corpus lutium on one ovary when we're trying to ovulate the other ovary with gnrh. She didn't ovulate with the first gnrh shot because she had a corpus lutium on the other ovary and then ovulated and concieved as she would have without you interfearing. FERTILE COW... beef cows are hard to get cycling when they have a sucking calf and that one did it on her own. Keep her and her calves.
The new programs do a much better job of syncing cows but it's a whole lot cheaper and easier to accept that what we're used to isn't perfect and accept that some cows will fall through the cracks but overall it's a pretty good system. That being said, all of the cows that I own are bred only on observed heats and I don't own a cleanup bull.

 

[angus9259]

The gal who AI'd my cows last year did a timed AI on them. We waited 2 weeks for even one of them to cycle natural and coming off the fescue they just would not cycle. So, we timed them with Lute and GNRH and bred them on the money according to her. Then turned them out with the bull in a couple of days.

So here's where it gets weird. Any of them that was going to calve to the AI should have calved one week ago. Remembering that these are Gelbvieh cows and they usually calve early rather than late listen to this. One of those cows dropped a 68lb heifer calf tonight and near as I can tell it's out of my Angus bull and not the AI ,GV bull.

Anybody seen a cow cycle 7 or 8 days after a timed deal like this?

I'm waiting on two right now that I saw stand 7 and 8 days after TAI. I was surprised too.

 

[ollie?]

A couple of years ago the dairy synced a bunch of heifers and time AIed them. A couple of days after the timed AI I had to start AIing them on their observed heats. Better then half of them came in after the timed AI. Of those that didn;t about half or less settled. All but one of the ones I AIed on observed heats.
Rather then the whole CIDR and shots deal from now on I'll go back to my old method. A shot of GnRH folled 7 days later by PGF2 and breed on observed heats.

25% pregnant? Most healthy cows on newer protocols with TAI should produce conception rates around 60%.

 

[regolith]

25% is about what my cows caught on TAI last year. Not planning on going through that exercise again.

I'd ha' thought turning out with a bull two days after AI to any form of heat is relatively safe, but maybe...

Bulls catching AI'd cows on the changeover isn't at all uncommon, but it's usually only 12 hours or so - either the bull arrives in the afternoon or do the last AI in the morning, turn the bull in and hold the AI cows out of the herd till next milking.

 

[bigbull338]

syncing an timed breeding rarely ever works.because syncing is supposed to bring everything in heat at the sametime.so that you can breed them all at once.im betting all your cows came in heat with the bull an that your semen was just wasted.you have to watch for standing heats after youve time bred an breed any in standing heat.

 

[JHH]

I wont use the TIA again. My friend and I have used it the last 3 years fall and spring and are only getting 32-36%. That is not acceptable. This year I am trying Knersie's way on my cows so we will see how that works. I would be happy with 50% but even happier if I run in the 70% range. We may might be doing something wrong but I dont think so.

The one thing that we may be doing wrong is with the straw of semen. We were both taught at school to put straw in gun then put the sheath over the gun and straw and it should click into place. The guy I got my A-I stuff from says we need to put the straw into the sheath and then in the gun? Any suggestions on that?

 

[dun]

I wont use the TIA again. My friend and I have used it the last 3 years fall and spring and are only getting 32-36%. That is not acceptable. This year I am trying Knersie's way on my cows so we will see how that works. I would be happy with 50% but even happier if I run in the 70% range. We may might be doing something wrong but I dont think so.

The one thing that we may be doing wrong is with the straw of semen. We were both taught at school to put straw in gun then put the sheath over the gun and straw and it should click into place. The guy I got my A-I stuff from says we need to put the straw into the sheath and then in the gun? Any suggestions on that?

I've alwasy done it your way. Has alwasy worked well for me. But I started long before they put that useless little plastic gasket gizmo in them. With my old style guns I have to fish that thing out to work right.

 

[hopalong]

those little plastic gizmos i get rid of, have yet to figure out what they are for or how they work, what am i doing wrong?

 

[dun]

those little plastic gizmos i get rid of, have yet to figure out what they are for or how they work, what am i doing wrong?

They're supposed to be some kind of a gasket to get a btter seal on the straw and the sheath. I fish them out with a crocket needle. Since I've never had a problem with any leakage between the sheath and the straw I see them as a solution to a nonexistant porblem

 

[hopalong]

I use the plunger from my gun and poke them out, send it down the tapered end of the sheath