thoughts on young bull

[sporder]

would like your thoughts on this 6 month old bull good or bad. i am still a bit green when it comes to looking for good/bad points at this early stage. he weighs 627 IIbs which gives him a average daily weight gain of 3.18 IIbs per day.

 

[sporder]

there has been 96 veiws but no one has an opinion on this bull. does that mean that there are 96 other people that dont know what to look for.
Knersie i trust and respect your veiws. could you point out what to look for.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I like your bull sporder. Be warned however, I'm green as a gourd in the cattle game.

 

[phillse]

Your bull looks like he could devlope into a nice commercial bull. He appears to have adequate muscling and depth, and growth and fairly structurally correct. I woud like to see him a smoother made through the shoulder. He is a little pinched in his heart girth, would like to see a stronger topline, a deeper flank, and a little bit longer sided.

That being said I am not bashing this bull but rather comparing to ideal or perfection. It is rare that we have an animal of perfection in every aspect. But rather we try to select for the closest to ideal. Sometimes we have to lose a little in one area to gain in another.

Keep an eye on him and see how he develops, he should make a nice bull for someone's program.

 

[Gators Rule]

I will give it a go...but albeit a superficial opinion...

there is a lot to like on this fella! First, he appears to have sufficient width across the back, but it is VERY hard to tell as there isn't a good picture that allows a view over the back, but looking at several other points on his body, he does seem to have some there.

Topline could use some work, but this guy is going to change a ton over the course of the next year, and I suspect he will look like a much different bull in 8-12 months.

I'm not sure I like how his rump ties in at the bottom. i would prefer to see that thickness carry itself farther down. If this is a bull prospect, I would like to see a little more bone. It's not bad though.

Here is probably where a lot of folks will disagree with me... At 6 months of age, I really don't want to see as much gut as this guy possesses. I know times have changed over the past 20-25 years, but I still like seeing a youngster like this be a little more streamlined at this stage.

Then there's the hair...LOL I'm in the S.E., so I'm sitting here chuckling at how much hair this guy has in the middle of the summer. :) It looks great, but wouldn't work in my backyard at this time of year. As far as the white color goes along the back, I don't know about that stuff, so I'm steering clear. :)

I like his head, and he also appears to be growing a decent set of jewels. I also like the cow on the left in the top pic. She is a tank! I will leave the shoulders alone, as my eyesight isn't trained to break it down like some of the others...

Nice bull calf!

 

[3waycross]

Little bull is not bad. Your cattle are showing a lot of improvement over the last couple of years.......

Ditto on that cow.

 

[sporder]

thank you for the honest comments. what is meant by slightly pinched heart gearth?
the cow in the back ground is what i consider to be my best cow. we have a great heifer from her this year which is showing promise and will be retained. i also have another bull calf that is nearly 3 months old and has dwg of 3.62 IIbs that is a grandson to her which i beleive should be the best bull i have raised to date.

 

[KNERSIE]

He certainly is a prospect worth developing. He has adequate bone, good volume and capacity for his age, decent muscle, very typical of British Herefords, but I agree I would like a touch longer muscle carrying down lower on the gaskins (the rump located on top of his rear third between the hooks and the pins, for those who use the term to describe something completely different altogether) His topline could have been stronger, but it is also made look worse than it is because he is obviously in a growth spurt as can be seen by how much longer his hind legs appear over his front legs. Ideally I'd like to see more base width, but that is true of the entire straight british segment of the breed. His heart girth is fine, his developing shoulders and paunch make is look as if he is pinched there,, but I don't really think its something to be concerned about at this stage. His flank will drop with maturity and his hair although a bit too coarse for my climate is likely a non issue for you or your customers. Is he out of your Free Town bull?

 

[sporder]

thanks Knersie. yes he is from free town falstaff and i am a little suprised with him as his dam is not one of my prefered cows as she is more of the traditional type hereford with a smaller frame. she has good milk though

 

[KNERSIE]

A good growthy calf out of a smaller cow is just about the ideal for profitability in a commercial set-up.

 

[sporder]

this is his dam. 4 years old

 

[Kingfisher]

His topline could have been stronger, but it is also made look worse than it is because he is obviously in a growth spurt as can be seen by how much longer his hind legs appear over his front legs.
Good morning. Ha that is the first thing I noticed. Thanks for suggesting the " growth spurt" as the cause of his rake!

 

[KNERSIE]

His dam is a pretty decent looking cow, a bit more angular than I prefer, but those are often the money makers.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Please explain "angular" KNERSIE.

Thanks

 

[KNERSIE]

Please explain "angular" KNERSIE.

Thanks

Angular refers to a cow that leans more towards a dairy type, they are usually longer fronted, finer boned and built, straighter lines and thus more acute angles.

The opposite would be a beefier or blockier cow with more muscle and ruggedness like the cow posted below.

The ideal is to balance the more maternal angular side with the beefy conformation to have a good beef cow, with enough milk, very fertile that can produce adequately on a lesser quality forage.

As long as you keep the female wedge too much muscle wouldn't concern me, but as soon as you start losing that you're already past the point of trading fertility and maternal quality, the opposite also apply if you push the angularity and milk production too far you'll also lose fertility, doing ability and you'll get to a point where you just expect too much from the bull to correct the conformation.

 

[sporder]

knersie as i consider this my best cow can you evaluate her an point out issues to look for. where would she be on the profit scale. because she is bigger than the others and possible consumes more does this make her less profitable. then on the other hand she produces better calfs.

 

[KNERSIE]

At the end of the day if she produces good calves and do that on average every 365 days, then she is doing the job you expect her to do for you. Not knowing anything about her production record I would have guessed that she might not be the most fertile cow and if challenged by a short breeding season she might fall out after a few years. It would be interesting to know what her inter calving period is.

Her strengths is she is reasonably well muscled very long bodied, good coat, broad muzzle and like you say she is raising good calves. Her weaknesses is she is a touch too heavy fronted, her udder could have been more evenly balanced and her pasterns are getting long with maybe a touch too little heel depth and she may be a little on the late maturing side.

She isn't the prettiest or most feminine and her bull calves might be better suited for terminal use than to sire replacements, but every herd has a few of her types that is just a good cow regardless of what the manual say she should be.

 

[sporder]

these are the dates that her calves have been born. 16/02/11 - 15/02/10 twins - 05/04/09 - 26/04/2008 - 18/03/2007.
surly you could only trust this information if you know that the bull entered the herd at the same time each year.

 

[KNERSIE]

Yes, but a cow will only fall out for failing to breed back in a defined breeding season anyway.

There are always exceptions to the rule and your cow is one, with a production record like that she doesn't need to be any prettier or anymore feminine.

 

[sporder]

while we are here can we try this one. he is the same age as the original bull and has the same sire although he is out of a 13yo cow that is not producing as much milk as the other cows. he is 563 IIbs with adwg of 2.80 IIbs. will he catch up when he is weaned and on better feed.