Thoughts on using your own bulls

[artesianspringsfarm]

There's a number of threads going right now that circle around questions of using your own genetics and/or what is the purpose of having registered genetics. You certainly need to know what you want your cattle to accomplish and what type will accomplish that before you can even begin to think about why you'd want to have registered cattle and whether or not you should raise and use your own bulls. The flipside, though, is I can't understand why you would want to raise registered or seedstock cattle if you werent confident enough to use your own bulls. I know the average small herd cant use all your own genetics and that AI is a great way to keep some healthy diversity in the genepool but if you wont use your own bulls, I'd say ask yourself if you really believe that bull will work for the fella you are selling him to. My first few bulls I sold to others, I basically sold for feeder prices but asked to reserve the right to buy them back at slaughter prices if they were done with the bull and I'm doing exactly that with one this year. I will have some mature pics soon but here he is at 5-6 months old from 3 years ago:

Wouldnt surprise me if most didnt think much of him (doesnt help that the picture stinks), but my confidence is more in his dam, his sisters, and his sire, who was a decent injection of some fresh genetics that are aligned with my program goals. Here is an older picture of his mother (16), with tow of her daughters by her side, a picture of her from last year, and a picture of this bull's sire. I look forward to seeing his calves next year. I think they will fall somewhere on the continuum of functional, longlasting cattle, but it will take another 10 years to prove it.


From 2018, all three females still in production and bred to calve this spring:

From 2023, but she looks about the same today:


His Sire:

 

[GoWyo]

I have never purchased a bull except in a straw. I had a couple herd sires (Gardens Wave son and a Right Time son) that aged out last year. Some of their daughters are some of my best cows. I have cleanup bulls that are A.I. sired and from my old herd sires and one is from a cleanup bull I sold a couple years ago. Basically I sell whatever customers want to buy and quit selling when I need the rest for cleanup bulls. If I wouldn't use them, they don't get to be a bull.

Replacement heifers are selected at weaning. I wind up mostly keeping the A.I. sired daughters, but some natural sired ones make it every year. Selection for type, dam and performance. We are breeding for females, but the bulls make the majority of the income.

 

[wbvs58]

I work much the same as @artesianspringsfarm and @GoWyo , I got into this side of things mainly to breed females and bulls were a biproduct. I have only kept 2 bull calves intact this year and one is out of my oldest and I think best performing cow, fertility 2nd to none, rears one of the heaviest at weaning and has daughters and grandaughters performing well in the herd. I hope to keep this son for a couple of years.
The other reason I use my own genetics is to not put all my eggs in the one basket, if I was to spend a considerable amount for me on a bull that didn't produce what I was after I would be stuck with it for a few years before I could afford a new one. Using my own as yearlings, this year I used 3 in various groups of cows so can manage any close relations. These bulls are very saleable after they have done their duties for me. I like to keep to use for a 2nd year as a 2yr old in the main herd.

Ken

 

[redcowsrule33]

If I wouldn't use them, they don't get to be a bull.

A horse breeder once told me “there’s a lot of good stallions that would make great geldings “.

 

[ClinchValley86]

The whole epigenetic aspect means a lot to me.

 

[gcreekrch]

We did for a while, we don’t now.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

We did for a while, we don't now.

Makes perfect sense to me that in a large commercial cow/calf operation, bulls from reputable outside herds are money well-spent. Apologies if I'm not characterizing your program well. Do you try to select a mixture of bulls with different expected outcomes or do you choose all your bulls to do the same thing across the board? I guess another way to ask might be do you have some maternal bulls and some terminal bulls or do you expect to do the same process of retention and culling for the offpsring of all your bulls?

 

[gcreekrch]

Makes perfect sense to me that in a large commercial cow/calf operation, bulls from reputable outside herds are money well-spent. Apologies if I'm not characterizing your program well. Do you try to select a mixture of bulls with different expected outcomes or do you choose all your bulls to do the same thing across the board? I guess another way to ask might be do you have some maternal bulls and some terminal bulls or do you expect to do the same process of retention and culling for the offpsring of all your bulls?

We try to have as many replacement type heifer calves as possible. The steers just happen to be pretty good too. Terminal means there should be no replacement heifers.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

We try to have as many replacement type heifer calves as possible. The steers just happen to be pretty good too. Terminal means there should be no replacement heifers.

Did you switch to only outside bulls because you thought the programs you buy from made for increased odds of replacements worth keeping?

 

[gizmom]

We have been using our own bulls for years. We AI everything one time then put the bulls in. My bull bred calves usually look as good or better than the AI calves. Now I know some will ask then why use AI and the truth is marketing. customers don’t know my bulls they want calves out of bulls they recognize from the AI catalogs they have been studying. I can’t blame them but to be honest a lot of times when they get here planning to buy that AI bred calf then start looking through the offering they take home the herd bulls calf.

 

[gcreekrch]

Did you switch to only outside bulls because you thought the programs you buy from made for increased odds of replacements worth keeping?

No matter how good your cattle are, someone else has better.

 

[sme.misfit.farms]

We have a local guy who use to use his own bulls, but for the last twenty years only AI's. I believe it's because he's selling mostly show stock for kids but he talks about his regular buyers getting heifers from him also. I'm not one of the big guys that gets to take his time when we see him and if I get a minute it's usually small talk, one day I'll ask. He's been doing this longer than I've been around so he probably knows what he's doing but I've pondered this same question.
I've purchased bulls because my herd isn't exactly where I want them to be and knowing what they're lacking it was worth the gamble to buy an outside bull because I didn't want to repeat what they had. 2024 was the first year I kept back more than one replacement heifer (one is an AI calf) and a bull calf. Bull calf has to prove he doesn't have the foot issues his dam likes to throw every now and then. We're on small acreage so I have to be picky what I keep and I finally got animals that I can call a foundation herd. I did pick up another bull calf who has all the muscle and better legs than what I've had but I'm worried it'll fall apart as soon as he gets real weight on. My purchased bull from last year let me down because he didn't get everyone covered in a sixty day window.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I used to AI 100% - but life is easier now, we AI for 30+ days then turn a bull out for 30 days. The bull is one I raised and sold. I just lease one back from buyer. Clean up calves are just as good as AI calves. Even brought 1 down to Louisville to show. Like mentioned above by @gizmom, buyers want the NAME recognition of AI bulls. And, like she mentioned, they sometimes pick out the clean up calf. I don't sell any bull I don't think is good enough for my cows.

 

[Nick Wagner]

I've been using my own bulls exclusively for years, got tired of importing problems and most of the time the tank sired calves didn't make the cut anyway. Disappointing at best. Slept easy through the recessive traits era, curly calf etc., still sleep easy during calving season. Herd is getting pretty tight, started using some AI to introduce new genetics. Two of the bulls used last year were tank sired calves born here. No regrets so far.