Thoughts on this old bull

[Avalon]

Hmmmmm!

 

[bandit80]

He looks like he is probably really, really old by now. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[bigbull338]

thats a heck of nice old style hereford bull.shows you what they was breeding for in the 30s 40s an 50s.but theres no doubt he is a well bred bull.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

thats a heck of nice old style hereford bull.shows you what they was breeding for in the 30s 40s an 50s.but theres no doubt he is a well bred bull.

probably well bred 40 years ago but they aint nothing about him nice, barrel gut, to much slope hook to pins. and no butt and slightly roach back

 

[bigbull338]

an we both know why that is.most all cattle breeds breed for the show ring.not the cattle that will preform in the pasture on grass an hay.as well as raise a big calf to weaning.an breed back in a timely manor.

 

[Aero]

to much slope hook to pins

What is the concern with this? looks bad? anything that will impact the bottom line?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

to much slope hook to pins

What is the concern with this? looks bad? anything that will impact the bottom line?

what bottom line are you refering too.. would'nt want it in my replacement's and that to me is a big concern.. as far as looks bad i could give a dam

 

[Aero]

would'nt want it in my replacement's and that to me is a big concern..

so what exactly does this cause? i have heard many people say hooks to pins being flat is a calving ease issue, but i havent heard a good reason for too much slope.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

would'nt want it in my replacement's and that to me is a big concern..

so what exactly does this cause? i have heard many people say hooks to pins being flat is a calving ease issue, but i havent heard a good reason for too much slope.>angle,

never heard of flat being a issue but to much slope,>angle< in the birth canal to vagina. especially dont want one with pin bones higher either. there's gonna be some,, but im not going to pick a maternal bull with a conformation i don't want in my replacements.. this bull looks like he was a big rangy hard doin' type to me

 

[Avalon]

to much slope hook to pins

What is the concern with this? looks bad? anything that will impact the bottom line?

The problem with this is that he will use his back to walk too much. When I watch an animal that looks like this, he/she often breaks down before his time. His problem will be in his back as opposed to an animal that is to straight in his make up will have problems in his stifle and hocks. There is something to good structure.

 

[Aero]

The problem with this is that he will use his back to walk too much. When I watch an animal that looks like this, he/she often breaks down before his time. His problem will be in his back as opposed to an animal that is to straight in his make up will have problems in his stifle and hocks. There is something to good structure.

that's what i was looking for. thanks for the help.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The problem with this is that he will use his back to walk too much. When I watch an animal that looks like this, he/she often breaks down before his time. His problem will be in his back as opposed to an animal that is to straight in his make up will have problems in his stifle and hocks. There is something to good structure.

that's what i was looking for. thanks for the help.

are you saying. where it looks like their butt is bouncing off the ground. their rear feet track too far forward? ... beside's sickle hock

 

[Avalon]

The problem with this is that he will use his back to walk too much. When I watch an animal that looks like this, he/she often breaks down before his time. His problem will be in his back as opposed to an animal that is to straight in his make up will have problems in his stifle and hocks. There is something to good structure.

that's what i was looking for. thanks for the help.

are you saying. where it looks like their butt is bouncing off the ground. their rear feet track too far forward? ... beside's sickle hock

Not the butt, the joint between the but and the loin..

 

[Avalon]

that's what i was looking for. thanks for the help.[/quote] are you saying. where it looks like their butt is bouncing off the ground. their rear feet track too far forward? ... beside's sickle hock[/quote]

Not the butt, the joint between the but and the loin..[/quote]

Sorry, I did mean to add that, I do not know if its the chicken or the egg, however when I see an animal that has an extreme cycle hock, he usually does step way to far forward with his back feet. In these same animals, as they get older we will encounter joint problems between the butt and the loin.

 

[TexasBred]

Any thoughts?

Well he's still butt ugly. Maybe the cattle made up for his short comings.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

well jumping ahead to the future alot of the old foundation stock had their shortcomings. like the old foundation quarter horse some were ugly as hell by today standards. but they sired the sire of champions down the line. .. they got to be a starting point somwheres..... oh yeah they had some good momas in there too

 

[rocket2222]

Any thoughts?

Well he's still butt ugly.

:lol: :lol:

 

[Avalon]

My sister is so old that she can get away with sayin that she waz purdy back in her day.
All kiddin aside. I'm sure that this bull was a great one of that day. You could bet the farm that the finest steak houses were serving his offspring at a premium.

 

[KNERSIE]

to much slope hook to pins

What is the concern with this? looks bad? anything that will impact the bottom line?

The problem with this is that he will use his back to walk too much. When I watch an animal that looks like this, he/she often breaks down before his time. His problem will be in his back as opposed to an animal that is to straight in his make up will have problems in his stifle and hocks. There is something to good structure.

I don't fully agree with the above statement, but I do agree that in general structural faults will shorten the productive lifetime.

If you look at buffalo breeds, all of them have the following in common:
They are slightly sickle hocked
Their pins are lower than the hooks
All have big barrels
Not one will have a high tailset
Not one will have straight hind legs
and most importantly...
They are the result of NATURAL SELECTION and haven't been influenced by the showring!

Make of this what you like, but in my simple mind here is my assumptions:

Slight sickle hocks is certainly not hampering mobility, it might be that our definition of sound is too straight in Mother Nature's book of phenotype.
If a slightly sloped rump resulted in birthing problems buffalo would have been extinct by now.
Big barrels or capacity or "hideous grass bellies" is a neccesity to thrive on low quality roughage
A high tailset serves no functional role
Slightly straight legs seemed to be culled vigouressly in nature
Maybe we should rethink our standards of excellence when it comes to the showring fads we select for because most of them we can't even explain the thinking behind it except for it looks good on a halter.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

a buffalo is not a sloped structuraly as they appear their back is relatively strait they got some kind of spike looking things in their skeleton that rise above attached to the spine. and slope as it goes to the rear... i dont show are have a degree hell i didnt even graduate from HS. i just know what i want in my cattle