thoughts on this bull

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sporder

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isle of wight united kingdom
like to know your thoughts on this 19 month old bull. he is Border Rory G19 and he has good ebvs.
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Not bad looking on the rear.
Would like to see a more flat topline with out the dip behind his shoulders.

He looks a little flat behind the shoulders to the ribs.

Those are the only 2 things.
He does have a nice depth and good thickness to him.
 
from what i see i like but i dont have the eye for perfection so do just by looking at a few pics on a putter i really like to see a bull move his feet and his nature are all as important as his conformation to me that is
 
He's got some good muscling, but I just really like a flat topline. The sway in the back just bugs me.
He does from that angle look like he has more muscle from his shoulder towards his ribs, but just not enough.

Maybe a more straight on profile pic?
 
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In order to adequately observe ALL of the features of any animal from pictures, one should be able to see ALL of the parts of the animal from a straight on, not distorted perspective. Ideally, the camera lens should be pointed directly at the animal, (from a side view) at the point of the shoulder and at the same height above the ground at the shoulder point, NOT three or four feet above the topline, and the 'camera side' hind foot should be slightly rearward so as to reveal the scrotum. All four feet should be in view, not obscured by straw or grass or mud or snow. A 'straight on' rear view should be presented with the camera at the same height above the ground as the side view was taken. And, the ideal image should show his width taken from behind and the camera lens at a height high enough above his back to show the width from his tail head to his shoulders. And, of course, there should be a close-up view of his head and face to show his eye sets and possible "worls", if any. Whorl positioning on the face is important in ascertaining temperment and docility traits. When it is all said and done, "pictures" are a lousy method to use in determining the quality and selection traits for seedstock choice.

That said, both of these bulls have a lot to be desired in the structure and fundamental traits areas to be considered as real optimal seedstock herd improvers, however many herds in need of improvement in some traits would not make a mistake in using either of them. Adequate bone structure, full hindquarters, sufficient size without being too large, but weak toplines, and narrow in the heart girths. The Genetic Traits (ebv's) are not listed specifically, so they are completely unknown (by me) insofar as selection decisions are concerned. Please give serious thoughts to the above ideas in the future when taking pictures.

DOC HARRIS
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":iabjbyks said:
Nice facilities.
Click to expand...

I think that's what you call damning with faint praise :D

1st bull looks like he was put together by committee, all parts and pieces. The second bull looks all together a better proposition, clean sheathed, more level topline, decent muscle expression.
 
robert":2qbbwr68 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2qbbwr68 said:
Nice facilities.
Click to expand...

I think that's what you call damning with faint praise :D

1st bull looks like he was put together by committee, all parts and pieces. The second bull looks all together a better proposition, clean sheathed, more level topline, decent muscle expression.
Click to expand...
Now Robert - - I was being nice.
 
Although it looks better in these pics he has a weak neck shoulder attachment and a very weak shoulder rib attachment. He also has a little too much slope from hooks to pins. If all the shoulder angles are correct a bull will stand naturally with the poll higher than the crops.

Another thing to look for is if you place a ruler across the withers the ruler must touch the tops of the two shoulder blades and the top of the spine simultaneously. That will create a level topline that will last. The bull you've posted's topline looks too much like a "s".
 
Knersie stated earlier in this thread that if a bull stands naturally the poll should be higher than the crops. 3 out of the 6 bulls in thread you posted do not. out of 100 bull calves how many would you expect to be good enough to use for pedigree replacements.
 
No offense Sporder but his topline looks worse than ever to me. I'd ship him now and not feed him all winter.
 
I thought these were good looking bulls and would jump at the chance if I could afford it. Not saying they are perfect but how many are? I like these because they have a fairly straight top line, muscular shoulders and hips, and good staught looking legs. Then again I don't raise pedigree cattle.
 
thendrix":tro3d4xv said:
I thought these were good looking bulls and would jump at the chance if I could afford it. Not saying they are perfect but how many are? I like these because they have a fairly straight top line, muscular shoulders and hips, and good stought looking legs. Then again I don't raise pedigree cattle.
Click to expand...

It's the same bull. Take a minute and read what Knersie said, you will learn something. I personally wouldn't use him for a commercial bull as I wouldn't want his dtrs carrying those defects.
 
3waycross":3ota55ek said:
thendrix":3ota55ek said:
I thought these were good looking bulls and would jump at the chance if I could afford it. Not saying they are perfect but how many are? I like these because they have a fairly straight top line, muscular shoulders and hips, and good stought looking legs. Then again I don't raise pedigree cattle.
Click to expand...

It's the same bull. Take a minute and read what Knersie said, you will learn something. I personally wouldn't use him for a commercial bull as I wouldn't want his dtrs carrying those defects.
Click to expand...

I wasn't refering to the bull in this thread, I was referring to the 6 bulls in the thread I posted a link to earlier.
 
Sporder
Every bull pictured in the link is stronger topped than the one you asked about. Not saying your bull is bad he is just a bit weak topped.

Gizmom
 

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