Thomas Jefferson

[pdfangus]

the leaders of that area were all men of principle who were highly regarded by the citizenry from where they came.

most were men of principle and conviction......and I am not referring to the rap sheets.

they were not politicians who survived by doling out largess from the public coffers.

Some of the trash we have elected to office these days is incomprehensible to me. If they were required to drive themselves to Washington the country would be a better place as many of them would not make it on their own devices.

 

[Caustic Burno]

the leaders of that area were all men of principle who were highly regarded by the citizenry from where they came.

most were men of principle and conviction......and I am not referring to the rap sheets.

they were not politicians who survived by doling out largess from the public coffers.

Some of the trash we have elected to office these days is incomprehensible to me. If they were required to drive themselves to Washington the country would be a better place as many of them would not make it on their own devices.

How funny but true.

The hogs have been eating out of our troughs to long.

 

[Douglas]

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property – until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

the current stae of our country ..predicted 200 yrs ago!

Myth:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp

 

[Douglas]

Slavery was not much different than what we have in place for farm labor now. I'd be willing to bet that the standard of living for *most* slaves was equal to or equivilant to the condition that most green wetbacks live in today.
The only real differance is that now we don't have to feed and cloth help when we don't need it... When we don't need them they just go without. :frowns:

Please explain. Are you talking about illegals or are you suggesting legal citizens of the US are going hungry? Or is this some kind of joke.

 

[TexasBred]

Slavery was not much different than what we have in place for farm labor now. I'd be willing to bet that the standard of living for *most* slaves was equal to or equivilant to the condition that most green wetbacks live in today.
The only real differance is that now we don't have to feed and cloth help when we don't need it... When we don't need them they just go without. :frowns:

But they are here because they want to be AND they can walk away anytime they want. They can choose their living standards.. Illegals are not as dumb as some think. They command good salaries these days and most are worth every penny of it.

 

[cow pollinater]

Slavery was not much different than what we have in place for farm labor now. I'd be willing to bet that the standard of living for *most* slaves was equal to or equivilant to the condition that most green wetbacks live in today.
The only real differance is that now we don't have to feed and cloth help when we don't need it... When we don't need them they just go without. :frowns:

Please explain. Are you talking about illegals or are you suggesting legal citizens of the US are going hungry? Or is this some kind of joke.

Mostly illegals but some have papers. Texasbred is right, they are free to move on if the work stops but moving costs money and alot of them never put together enough money to do much more than survive. I have been in homes with dirt floors where the men worked twelve (or more if they could find more work) hour days and only ate two meals a day and the kids lived at home alone because mommy works as well and the kids are so far under the radar that the schools don't even know they're there. They work slave jobs for a wage that barely puts food on the table and then every time that it rains hard enough to stop work... The money stops and they go without. Every time the citrus crops freeze... the money stops and they go without. We had a huge freeze a few years ago and it turned into a humanitarian crisis because we had people literally going hungry from lack of a job to do... Slaves got fed because it's good practice to feed your livestock so that they're ready to work when you need them. These people didn't even get that. With the exception of handouts from a few growers and concerned citizens un-involved in it all, they went without.
They'd be better off to work for someone who at least took care of their basic needs. At least that way they'd get fed regardless of what the work was like.
Again, they are free to leave if they choose. Some will rise out of it and get the higher paying jobs, but alot of them just continue to live in absolute poverty.

 

[Douglas]

^ No easy solution to that. Around here migrant/visa labor is well taken care of in my experience. They are too important to risk them not coming back next year. Tobacco mostly. Most live in mobile homes with all normal convienences.

 

[TexasBred]

CP all I can say is that you definitely need to take a trip down deep into Mexico. Whatever the conditions here, it's usually much better than what they left...and two meals a day is pretty much the norm and anything more than a thatched roof is an improvement. Anything they get up here is usually an improvement especially the money. But they are survivors and can live on much less than we can and still send a lot of money home. They don't stay here because the necessarily love it or us.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I've got a few Mexicans working for me . They have work visa s . But I've seen pictures and heard first hand of the living conditions down in Mexico and its not pretty . Try making 40 bucks a week . Try living on that .

 

[Ryder]

CP all I can say is that you definitely need to take a trip down deep into Mexico. Whatever the conditions here, it's usually much better than what they left...and two meals a day is pretty much the norm and anything more than a thatched roof is an improvement. Anything they get up here is usually an improvement especially the money. But they are survivors and can live on much less than we can and still send a lot of money home. They don't stay here because the necessarily love it or us.

You are right and other countries can be as bad or worse.
I have seen people living in boxes in one country and sure they do in others.
People are in two groups. The have and have not.
People in this country do not know how good they (we) have got it.
It is disgusting and frightning to see what our "esteemed leaders" are doing to our economy.

 

[pdfangus]

Yes....I fear that in my lifetime you won't have to go to a foreign country to see people living in primitive conditions.....
My parents generation both saw it and lived thru it.....
I fear for my kids and grandkids.....

 

[Dave]

My grandfather told me that when he came to this country in 1910 to work in the logging camps that they treated the pigs better than they did the men. The pigs got straw for bedding. The men just had rough cut lumber for bunks. The men went out and gathered moss or boughs for a softer bed. When a man got killed (and lots did) they would just drag his body out of the way and keep working until the end of the day. Same thing with an injured man. They just put you to the side and at the end of the day took you to town. You had better be able to survive on your own for the rest of the day. One of my neighbors broke his arm working in the woods (compound fracture, reasonably bad). He is now 86 so this would have been in the late 40's. He had his choice, wait until the end of the day to ride the speeder out or walk 10 miles. He walked. Another old timer I worked with years ago said he was working on a log landing. The head loader was crushed to death by a log. The side rod and the 2nd loader drug the guy off by his legs. Then the side rod turned to him and told him to do the dead guys job. He said it was a 14 mile walk back to camp to gather his stuff but he didn't mind doing it at all.

As tough as some of the immigrants might have it now. Things are a whole lot better than they were 50 - 100 years ago.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

when i think of how bad folks had it back then,, i think of the native american's... and it stops right there..

 

[Caustic Burno]

Yes....I fear that in my lifetime you won't have to go to a foreign country to see people living in primitive conditions.....
My parents generation both saw it and lived thru it.....
I fear for my kids and grandkids.....

Amen I don't see us being far from Argentina of the 90's economic collapse.
Better stockpile food and ammo IMO. The difference this go around most don't know how to work or survive off the land.
When the local grocery store shut's down or plastic doesn't work things are going to get nasty real quick. I seen that in Rita and it lasted only about a week or two. If the economy collapse's it will be long row to hoe before it gets back on track if it does.

 

[Ryder]

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property – until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

the current stae of our country ..predicted 200 yrs ago!

Myth:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp

If jefferson didn't say it, he should have.

 

[Douglas]

^ No one has every seriously considered something so crazy as letting private banks issue currency.