THM Durango 4037

[KNERSIE]

Anyone with experience or more information? Or photos of his head and eyes?

I am surprised at the metamorphosis he had undergone, enough to make me take a second look, but struggling to find more info on him

 

[hereford_jock]

i havent used him personally but am thinking about it. However, i know several people that have and its been successful so far. Easy fleshing calves with pigment and freckles but may throw a little extra white. I havent seen any daughters in production yet. The 4037's look really good in the NJW sale catalog. My neighbors are taking a 4037/hunter daughter to the American Royal, Ladies of the Royal sale.

 

[iowa hawkeyes]

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... D&9=505250

A link with 3 pics.
Our calves that I have pictured on here are from About Time, a Durango son.
BTW, our heifer calf was just named Reserve Champion Feeder Calf at an big open show.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

What about that big NEGATIVE fat EPD?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

What about that big NEGATIVE fat EPD?

WLM-

Your question regarding the "Negative Fat EPD" is an acute observation! That is certainly a factor to consider in your selection process of either purchasing progeny seedstock or semen from this bull. HOWEVER - here is a good example of how "Single Trait Selection" can affect the decision-making processes of a breeder's desire to "Make NO mistakes" in his selection protocols of Sire selections for the Genetics of his herd in the future.

Analyzing this bull from a Phenotypical point of view, he is close to being as perfect a specimen as one would wish to see. Now, if we start picking him apart from a Genetic or EPD aspect (as is appropriate and necessary for every breeder seeking to improve his seedstock genetics), an astute observer will discover several factors which he would like to see improved upon. But that is the entire purpose of understanding and using that knowledge to rationalize and compensate for faults in the selection of the cows to whom you breed this bull, rather than bow your neck, flip your stubborn switch, and refuse to capitalize on his positive qualities! The "Negative Fat EPD" can be addressed with future matings and cow selections with POSITIVE Fat readings, and not "throw out the baby with the bath water". The excellent and high heritable factors can be incorporated into one's herd, and the lesser undesirable traits can be 'selected out' at later matings without losing the overall tremendous Phenotype and Genotype 'package' available in this one bull.

After wiping the drool from one's chin, it can be seen that acquiring the EPD and Phenotype package available in this bull could escalate a breeding program ad infinitum, or - to put it in English - "'til the cows come home!"

DOC HARRIS

 

[upfrombottom]

Doc, you never cease to amaze me with your Shakespearean view of cattle genetics. I find myself, at times, reading your post to see if I can follow along, and sometimes miss the meaning of what you are saying during translation. If my underdeveloped cranium has translated it right, "You can beat a low spade with a higher spade."

 

[KNERSIE]

What about that big NEGATIVE fat EPD?

As you know I am trying to start another (preferably unique in SA) line. I need to stick to a phenotype that i feel is strong in areas where I can improve on without going outside the type I believe a hereford should be. That alone eliminates 90% of the bulls, add to that that full pigment and very good eyeset isn't even negotiable and easily 99% of bulls are eliminated. Calving ease and low BW is a must although I don't place emphasis on trying to breed trait leading light BW. Seen in the bigger picture and knowing what I have to work with I feel backfat is probably the one trait I feel I can gamble on, his rather small scrotal EPD worries me more.

The last attempt at starting a new line was a perfect phenotypic match, but the unproven BW EBV proved to be a disaster in my herd, although it don't seem to be a industry wide problem (yet).

 

[Brandonm22]

Phenotypically there is nothing to harp on negatively in that pic.
I am kind of surpised about the EPD discusion. The fat and scrotal circumference EPDs don't bother me much. If there is an EPD to criticize I would think that it would be the breed leading milk EPD. This is probably less true with Herefords than Anguses (since a base (+0) Angus milks heavier than a base (+0) Hereford, but really high milk EPDs can be an indicator of a harder keeping type mama cow. Combine that with the breed leading fat epd and you kind of worry about the longevity of that bull's daughters in a more feed restrictive enviroment........and I am the first to admit that those trait relationships are FAR from being perfect indicators of real world performance.

 

[Herefords.US]

Regarding Durango, from the Sale Notes of the catalog of the upcoming Ned and Jan Ward Sale:

• Never before have we used a bull that has done so many
things RIGHT!
• I will talk on and on about cow families in this catalog,
but a major strength of this sale comes from 4037!
• When it comes to calving ease, he is the All-Around
Best---use him on heifers and cows. The average BW on
the 74 calves we had out of him this year was 82 #. Most
calves out of 2 year olds weigh in the 70's.
• These calves are born ready----they jump up and go to
nursing and never slow down. They're deep and solid
with plenty of grow and "bear down" the scales come fall.
• His sons are efficient, full of muscle and carcass value,
are fertile and the first to sell!! The daughters are deep
ribbed, superb mothers and here to make us a living!
• Cattle out of 4037 are well pigmented with good dispositions.
• Best of all, 4037 breeds consistently----consistent BW,
consistent performance and consistently good cattle!
• Thanks ---Tommy Mead for raising this Great Herd Bull!

 

[KNERSIE]

Thanks George, that atleast gives me a starting point. Do you perhaps know whether there is an online catalogue with photos of his progeny?

 

[Herefords.US]

Thanks George, that atleast gives me a starting point. Do you perhaps know whether there is an online catalogue with photos of his progeny?

Here is the catalog:

http://www.reedent.com/midwest/catalogs/njw/njw.pdf

I'm having a hard time convincing myself that I shouldn't actually go to this sale...if for no other reason rid myself of some barn-blindness.

George

 

[Herefords.US]

I was reading posts on another forum and there was one that said Durango's Denver Champion son, CRR About Time 743, a Genex Sire, had recently died.

I haven't been able to find any confirmation of that, though...so I guess I'm just repeating rumors until I do.

George

 

[iowa hawkeyes]

I hadn't heard that. Thanks. We really like our calves by him, they (like most herfs) just keep getting better.

 

[hereford_jock]

About Time did in fact die around the 3rd of September, its a terrible loss to a up and rising sire. I talked with the Midwest Genex fieldman and he said he had somewhere around 6,000 units of semen on hand and didnt expect a jump in price. He told me the only way that would happen is if they'd sell fast and get down around a 1,000 units.

I recently looked at some About Time calves on Upstreams upcoming sale....really liked the quality

http://www.upstreamcattle.com/saleinfo.html

 

[JHH]

I was reading posts on another forum and there was one that said Durango's Denver Champion son, CRR About Time 743, a Genex Sire, had recently died.

I haven't been able to find any confirmation of that, though...so I guess I'm just repeating rumors until I do.

George

George I heard the same thing at our hereford field day tour Sat. I believe Larry Day told me.

There was an About time heifer on display she stood out from the rest.

I have always liked the pic of Durango but I never did buy any semen.

 

[KNERSIE]

Thanks George, that atleast gives me a starting point. Do you perhaps know whether there is an online catalogue with photos of his progeny?

Here is the catalog:

http://www.reedent.com/midwest/catalogs/njw/njw.pdf

I'm having a hard time convincing myself that I shouldn't actually go to this sale...if for no other reason rid myself of some barn-blindness.

George

Must say i was very impressed with the overall quality of the salestring and I'm pleasantly surprised at the uniformity and type of the Durango calves, pity he didn't breed better eyes with more pigment.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Must say i was very impressed with the overall quality of the salestring and I'm pleasantly surprised at the uniformity and type of the Durango calves, pity he didn't breed better eyes with more pigment.

Well was that a thumbs up or a thumbs down? Sounded like a US politician to me! LOL

 

[rocket2222]

Thanks George, that atleast gives me a starting point. Do you perhaps know whether there is an online catalogue with photos of his progeny?

Here is the catalog:

http://www.reedent.com/midwest/catalogs/njw/njw.pdf

I'm having a hard time convincing myself that I shouldn't actually go to this sale...if for no other reason rid myself of some barn-blindness.

George

I thought everything was going pretty well till Lot 27. It certainly wouldn't take much for him to outbreed himself, any cow he bred with a little bone and muscle would surely look better than he does.

George, you will have to educate me on the barn blindness thing, how does going to the sale fix a barn blindness problem, I guess I'm missing the boat, like I am with lot 27.

 

[Alan]

Here's a dumb a$$ hobby guy chiming in, I like a lot about him. I like his BW,REA and Marbling and the looks of his claves. I really like the way he looks..... Phenoype, I'll buy semen. It's a good point about his daughters milking.... but.... Some of you guys need to show me the perfect Polled Hereford bull or any perfect bull of any breed posted on CT! Another big time bull died with semen stored... :shock:

Alan

 

[JHH]

Here's a dumb a$$ hobby guy chiming in, I like a lot about him. I like his BW,REA and Marbling and the looks of his claves. I really like the way he looks..... Phenoype, I'll buy semen. It's a good point about his daughters milking.... but.... Some of you guys need to show me the perfect Polled Hereford bull or any perfect bull of any breed posted on CT! Another big time bull died with semen stored... :shock:

Alan

Alan I dont believe there is a PERFECT bull. There are bulls to use to blend them together like Knersie has done to make excellent sons and daughters. You have to find the right blend. ( kind of like good wine it takes time)