This Calving Season Just Plain Sux....

[colleen]

Why didn't I think of that Dun!! Helps make things easier.

 

[colleen]

Just a little info from Merck on Uterine prolapses. (Of which I know nothing about)

"Uterine Prolapses"
A uterine prolapse is typically seen immediately following or within a few hours of calving. Compared to the vaginal prolapse, the uterine prolapse is larger, longer (usually hanging down to the hocks when standing), more deep red in color and covered with the "buttons" where the placenta was attached. A uterine prolapse is considered a medical emergency; therefore, this condition is life threaten­ing. If the affected cow is not treated quickly, she could go into shock or die from blood loss. Contact your veterinarian for assistance with this procedure. If the uterus is pushed back improperly, it could result in internal bleeding and death of the cow.

With uterine prolapses, if a good, clean job is done replacing the uterus, it may not be necessary to cull the cow from the herd. These cows have the potential to return to the herd and maintain a normal reproductive existence. However, if an infec­tion occurred when the uterus was replaced, the cow may be slow to rebreed or may not breed back at all. Although there is no genetic predisposition to uterine prolapses, be aware that cows that have experienced a prolapsed uterus have a higher risk of prolapsing again compared to cows that have never experienced this condition.

Potential factors that can predispose a cow to a uterine prolapse include a difficult calving (dystocia) that causes injury or irritation of the external birth canal, severe straining during labor or excessive pressure applied when pulling a calf. Other factors may include nutrition-related problems such as low blood calcium levels (more common in dairy cows) or overly thin cows that calve in poor body condition. To avoid problems with uterine prolapses, try to decrease the potential for the cow being affected by a predisposing factor listed above.

The Merck Veterinary Manual 9th Edition. Merck and Co., Inc., Rahway, New Jersey 07065. www.merckvetmanual.com/

 

[dun]

Just a little info from Merck on Uterine prolapses. (Of which I know nothing about)

"Uterine Prolapses"
A uterine prolapse is typically seen immediately following or within a few hours of calving. Compared to the vaginal prolapse, the uterine prolapse is larger, longer (usually hanging down to the hocks when standing), more deep red in color and covered with the "buttons" where the placenta was attached. A uterine prolapse is considered a medical emergency; therefore, this condition is life threaten­ing. If the affected cow is not treated quickly, she could go into shock or die from blood loss. Contact your veterinarian for assistance with this procedure. If the uterus is pushed back improperly, it could result in internal bleeding and death of the cow.

With uterine prolapses, if a good, clean job is done replacing the uterus, it may not be necessary to cull the cow from the herd. These cows have the potential to return to the herd and maintain a normal reproductive existence. However, if an infec­tion occurred when the uterus was replaced, the cow may be slow to rebreed or may not breed back at all. Although there is no genetic predisposition to uterine prolapses, be aware that cows that have experienced a prolapsed uterus have a higher risk of prolapsing again compared to cows that have never experienced this condition.

Potential factors that can predispose a cow to a uterine prolapse include a difficult calving (dystocia) that causes injury or irritation of the external birth canal, severe straining during labor or excessive pressure applied when pulling a calf. Other factors may include nutrition-related problems such as low blood calcium levels (more common in dairy cows) or overly thin cows that calve in poor body condition. To avoid problems with uterine prolapses, try to decrease the potential for the cow being affected by a predisposing factor listed above.

The Merck Veterinary Manual 9th Edition. Merck and Co., Inc., Rahway, New Jersey 07065. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/

Gee they missed listing calving on steep hills as being a cause!

 

[inyati13]

We have lost one calf out of 5 for February. It's never easy. Especially not for Mom! Maybe the rest of the season will be better for you. Isn't it risky to put a cow in a chute to pull a calf? You should tie them using a halter, never a rope around the neck. And I've always heard never put into a chute, in case they lay or fall down. Isn't that right?
Colleen

We will put them in the chute to get a halter on her, then tie it to the ouside of the chute and have her walk out. Then we start the pulling or wahtever is needed.

dun, follow-up question. Where does the cow stand in relationship to the chute or do you move her to a location away for the chute to do the pulling?

colleen, thanks for bringing this up. The vet who I use has stated to me that if I need help with a cow during calving, that I need to place her where we can access the squeeze chute. Maybe it is for the same reason as dun, stated. He followed that recommendation with the added words that he does not go into the pasture and work on cows that are tied to a tree or a tractor. He has before but does not do it anymore.

PS. If the cow goes down, on a chute that has a side that swings open you can get her out. But if the cows head is in the catch and locked up and she goes down - you cannot get the door open by moving it forward - her weight will place reverse load on the door. You can release it in the direction that you set it for automatic catch and then the cow could get out if she can get to her feet.

 

[dun]

dun, follow-up question. Where does the cow stand in relationship to the chute or do you move her to a location away for the chute to do the pulling?

No, just somewhere around the chute that akllows a lot of working room. The chute is about the easiest thing to tie her to that isn;t going to move if she goes nuts.

 

[dun]

If uou've ever tried using a calf jack on a cowin a chute you would see the wisdom in having her out of the chute.
Ifthe cow is a real lunatic we'll put the chains on the calf in the chute also then turn her out to actaully pull it

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We do the same thing Dun, put a halter on them and tie them to the chute. However, we have a pretty cool chute in that the side doors open all the way up, with the hinge on the rear of the cute and the latch on the front. When we open the side doors, they swing back towards the rear and out. It has poles that can be set in holes to keep them in place, or the poles can be removed so it is just a head catch. If we had a real wild one (never have so far), we can leave them in the head catch and open the doors and have complete access. My only concern would be a cow laying down and choking...

 

[dun]

My only concern would be a cow laying down and choking...

That's the reson we turn them out and tie them off to the chute. They can go down but it isn;t any kind of emergency or worry type of deal.

 

[inyati13]

Thanks, Firesweep Ranch and dun.

 

[robertwhite]

I understand about the chute, but this particular cow had a pretty rude disposition and would have tried to kick anyone near her if tied up. She was put in the head catch and her lower legs were somewhat blocked by a 2x4 so no one would be injured if she tried to kick, plus it would not allow her to sit or go to the ground. Again, this cow fully prolapsed AS she was calving. The calf's rear half was twisted with no way for us to go in and turn it. As it came out, it twisted to the normal position, bringing the uterus with it.

The other cows didn't have a problem delivering their long legged calves, so maybe it was a combination of the cow having smaller hips, the calf being twisted and whatever else factored in. If these calves "grow into" their long legs, then no big deal. But I still need to figure out if the bull stays or goes and as I said, it is way late to reserve a lease and the odds of finding a suitable bull this close to breeding season are not to high, at least without paying a ridiculous price. I am a tiny operation and can not afford an expensive bull like a lot of you who have large operations can. It will just never pay off.

 

[inyati13]

If uou've ever tried using a calf jack on a cowin a chute you would see the wisdom in having her out of the chute.
Ifthe cow is a real lunatic we'll put the chains on the calf in the chute also then turn her out to actaully pull it

Good to know. My vet gave me the impression that you do the work in the chute but I see now he may have meant we would use the chute for the prep work.

I do have a calf jack but have not had to use it and knock on wood, never will. Did have a cow that needed a helping hand but not more than a little pull when she was looking exhausted. She had everything going pretty well for us. The cow was a perfect princess through the whole thing. Even got up afterwards and came over to smell her baby while me and my neighbor were getting it's lungs going. Later that same day, she chased me out of the pen. It took about 2 months before she would let me scratch her.

 

[chippie]

I'm sorry for your bad luck and loss. : (
Hope that it gets better for you.

 

[randiliana]

We use a self catching headgate on our calving pen. With 2 panels that swing back and away. No danger of them choking if they go down, and with the swinging panels, we can control her movement a lot more.

 

[dun]

The other cows didn't have a problem delivering their long legged calves, so maybe it was a combination of the cow having smaller hips

That's a perfect reason to always do pelvic measurements on heifers before breeding.

 

[randiliana]

Here's a photo of the setup, both gates/panels swing.

 

[robertwhite]

The other cows didn't have a problem delivering their long legged calves, so maybe it was a combination of the cow having smaller hips

That's a perfect reason to always do pelvic measurements on heifers before breeding.

It may be stupid, but I didn't really give it any thought as the heifer is the same size as the mother. In this case, the heifer survived and the 5 calf mother died. No way to predict that. :frowns: But rest assured that I will no longer breed any somewhat small cows and I had previously told myself (long before any of this even happened) that after my last held back heifer calves, I will not deal with any more heifers. Once the final one calves in April, I am done with heifers.

 

[dun]

The other cows didn't have a problem delivering their long legged calves, so maybe it was a combination of the cow having smaller hips

That's a perfect reason to always do pelvic measurements on heifers before breeding.

It may be stupid, but I didn't really give it any thought as the heifer is the same size as the mother. In this case, the heifer survived and the 5 calf mother died. No way to predict that. :frowns: But rest assured that I will no longer breed any somewhat small cows and I had previously told myself (long before any of this even happened) that after my last held back heifer calves, I will not deal with any more heifers. Once the final one calves in April, I am done with heifers.

You can really significantly decrease calving issues by doing the pelvic on all heifers. It's not fool proof but it helps.This year we are culling a retained heifer because she failed her pelvic measurement, her mother had a large measurement as a heifer and this one is so small she wouldn;t be able to pass anything much bigger then a puppy. It is heritable but every once in a while you get one of those throwback/anomaly kind of deals. Some friends did pelvics on a bunch of heifers all sired by one particualr bull. They all had way more then minimum size, when they started calving they had to do Csections on most of them. The pelvic as 2 year olds was only a hair larger then it had been as yearlings. That's the anomaly

 

[inyati13]

dun, -first, I understand you know this but I am forming my point- I have been building my herd with what are called "state cerified bred heifers" here in KY. It is the criteria they use for getting approval of cost share money to buy bred heifers in which case the state will fund up to 75% of the cost in some counties like Robertson where my farm is located. The heifer must be 150 square centimeters based on a two dimension pelvic measurement. The vet has a tool that he takes two readings with, height and breadth. Then he uses that data to arrive at the area of the pelvic canal. I had the vet measure a heifer I raised. She measured 137 at 9 months. The vet said I want her to be a minimum of 150 at 12 months or at the time of breeding. The point is this, all of the bred heifers I have purchased have met these requirements and I have not had any calving problems, knock on wood. The pelvic score is data that has valve in real finite terms. If I am incorrect on how the measurement is taken and scored someone jump on me with both feet. I watched the vet do my heifer. I would like to own one of the devices but the simple gadget (not a calipers or a mike but like the other measuring tool that you measure between two points that is made like a compass, can't think of what they are called, you know what I mean) costs over $200.

 

[dun]

You do know that there is a value you can use to calculate (roughly) what the yearling size would be based on days of age. The magic number is .27square cm per day (but remember the anomaly). The heifer of ours that failed wouldn;t even by 137 at a year based on that number and her orginal measurement. The measuring device is a pelvimeter. Since it's something that is used so seldom I prefer to let the vet carry the cost of it.
Missouri has the same kind of program it's called the "Sho Me Select"

 

[inyati13]

You do know that there is a value you can use to calculate (roughly) what the yearling size would be based on days of age. The magic number is .27square cm per day (but remember the anomaly). The heifer of ours that failed wouldn;t even by 137 at a year based on that number and her orginal measurement. The measuring device is a pelvimeter. Since it's something that is used so seldom I prefer to let the vet carry the cost of it.
Missouri has the same kind of program it's called the "Sho Me Select"

dun, that would put a heifer at 97.2 square cm in 12 months. Isn't that a little small? My heifer was 9 months old. 9 times 30 equals 270 days times .27 sq cm per day equals 72.9 sq cm. She was 137 sq cm. Then is she ahead of the mean? I do understand that there is the anomaly which really should be culled w/o question. The particular heifer I mention looks small but maybe her pelvis is ok. I am still wondering where she is going to put a calf as she is only 45 inches at the top of the back.