This Bull worth buying?

[BrokeFarmer]

Hi, I dont post much on this board but I read it nearly everyday, lots of good information here. I have been borrowing a bull from a good friend of mine for the last 2 years, He passed away a couple weeks ago unexpectedly. Ive have got one of his Bulls now and his wife has asked if I would like to buy the bull or try to sell him for her, she is selling out.

I have an offer of $1200 for the bull, which I would need to match if I wanted to buy him. He is from registered stock, about 2 years old and bought from a breeder that sells Bulls (I know nothing of his bloodlines). The breeder did not register this Bull because he wasnt up to the Breeders standards.

I am just wanting opinions he has done his business here and I wont need a bull for a while he has no calves on the ground to see, but has breed 15 heifers that are due to start calving anyday, but they are on there way to the sale barn Saturday.

If his nuts should have been cut off when he hit the ground, tell me so, but please tell me why. :D

 

[ALACOWMAN]

not the best pictures ,but enough to tell he's not what i would even consider. he aready looks like a steer, no muscle,not much depth. nothing masculine about him. put some more with that 1200 and buy a real herd improver

 

[BrokeFarmer]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate your honesty. I know hes not muscled up and doesnt look bullish, Do you think he might throw good heifers, thats what Im wanting.

 

[TexasBred]

You're heifers will probably be better than their dad but not as good as their mom. That's assuming the cows are good. This is the type bull that will pull down the quality of the next generation.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

He would only work to produce heifers if you want heifers without muscle and guts that produce like animals that won't make you money. i watched a sale on the T.V. yesterday I believe it was sandpoint angus out of Nebraska, some of those bulls brough $2000 and would produce a lot better then this bull could dream. I believe that this type of animal is the problems that result of how easy it has become to sell black hided animals. An animal like that wouldn't have made it past weaning with his testicles if he was red. I think you can do a lot better, and don't necissarily have to spend a lot more money to do so.

 

[MikeC]

The breeder did not register this Bull because he wasnt up to the Breeders standards.

Then he's somebody's cull. Expect no more from his calves than that.

 

[hillrancher]

The only way to improve your heard other than sell all and buying back is to use the best bull you can afford and better than the heard you are using him on.
I would not want him free if I had to use him as a breeder.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

As previously stated: he did not meet the breeder's standards. HUGE red flag.

Around here you can buy a pretty nice bull for under $2000 especially with the state's new cost share program. I would pass on him.

 

[Aaron]

Pass, pass, pass. If he ain't worth registering, he ain't worth using. Just another cheap breeder trying to pass off a cull to you. Heck, he wouldn't even make that great-a-looking steer. :cowboy:

 

[hrbelgians]

He would only work to produce heifers if you want heifers without muscle and guts that produce like animals that won't make you money. i watched a sale on the T.V. yesterday I believe it was sandpoint angus out of Nebraska, some of those bulls brough $2000 and would produce a lot better then this bull could dream. I believe that this type of animal is the problems that result of how easy it has become to sell black hided animals. An animal like that wouldn't have made it past weaning with his testicles if he was red. I think you can do a lot better, and don't necissarily have to spend a lot more money to do so.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate your honesty. I know hes not muscled up and doesnt look bullish,

• >>Do you think he might throw good heifers,<<

thats what Im wanting.

would'nt even take a gamble on it. you dont want to retain heifer's from a non masculine bull. the risk of infertility, the idea of retaining heifers is to move foward, like ive heard it said best before... the cows are where your at now...the bull is where you want to be..

 

[Horticattleman]

Even if he's registered, that don't mean he's good ;-)

You asked if he would be good for your heifers. Are you baseing this on the fact that he was used on heifers already. You also said you knew nothing about his bloodlines. Without that don't use him on heifers just because someone else did and you haven't even seen his calves. Might be a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[redfornow]

The smartest move would be to AI.
That many cows (16) doesnt justify a bull.
If you want keep him as clean up, a sorry calf is better than NO calf.
At that price in 18 months you should get 1200 or so for slaughter weight.

Better for the heifers (proven bull) and better for your herd (better bulls than you could buy)
You would leap forward rather than limp forward.
With that said I wouldnt spend 2500 for a bull on just 15 or 16 cows.
Makes no since, great way to loose your shirt.
You cant feed him and buy and come out on those numbers.
Just cant be done.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

After getting the cows ready with cidrs and lut. and then having a tech put the semen in and including the semen cost it was around $800 to AI about that same amount of animals. I don't understand how people think it costs less in the long run to AI. Just buy a decent bull and put him with your cows. In the long run for a reg. herd you are better off buying a 5-7000 dollar bull instead of AI'ing everything and having to pay cert costs.

 

[TexasBred]

After getting the cows ready with cidrs and lut. and then having a tech put the semen in and including the semen cost it was around $800 to AI about that same amount of animals. I don't understand how people think it costs less in the long run to AI. Just buy a decent bull and put him with your cows. In the long run for a reg. herd you are better off buying a 5-7000 dollar bull instead of AI'ing everything and having to pay cert costs.

For me the decision to AI is simple. My wife is probably as good an AI tech as there is around and secondly I just hate a bull on the place period. :!: :!: :!: We do always keep one little jersey bull about 3-4 months old around as our spotter bull.

 

[Frankie]

Afte In the long run for a reg. herd you are better off buying a 5-7000 dollar bull instead of AI'ing everything and having to pay cert costs.

That may be true of Herefords, but not Angus. I've been to too many Angus sales and watched heifers by clean up bulls, or even just bred to clean up bulls, bring $2-500 less than similar AI sired heifers. The big breeders can use their own bulls, but not smaller breeders, if they expect to make any money.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

You probably are right, if you take into account the marketability of those calves it probably comes out to AI. This year I am buying a bull from Kevin at his sale, and that is all we are going to have. Next year I will be AI and use the same bull. Our breeds biggest issue IMO is our high cert costs. The semen might be $40 and then the cert is $100. It is preventing us from moving forward within our breed. But highly promoted herds are pushing this even harder, a lot of bulls are $50-100 a straw and $100 cert.

When I sell bulls for $2000 I am not sure that the direct sire matters all that much. I guess if I was pushing for $5-10000 bulls. Of course it can't hurt to have that extra recognition on paper

 

[dun]

I thought there were some bulls that you didn;t need certs for. If I had to pay 40-50 bucks a unit for semen I'ld either get out of the business or buy a bull.

 

[TexasBred]

I thought there were some bulls that you didn;t need certs for. If I had to pay 40-50 bucks a unit for semen I'ld either get out of the business or buy a bull.

dun it's purely on the honor system but if we tell our supplier (Camp Cooley Ranch and Ultimate Genetics) we're going to breed a registered cow and will need the certificate it's $50....if we're going to breed a commercial cow the same semen is $10.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

I don't know what honor system you refer to. he is talking about the hereford non-cert program in which there are a few bulls that you only have to buy the straw. If you are buying semen on cert bulls then you have to pay the cert cost before they will register the calf. therefore it really isn't an honor system because if you took that $10 straw and tried to register a calf you would have to pay for the cert regardless