The Feds

Dave

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Joined
Jul 12, 2004
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City & State/Province
Baker County, Oregon
With the talk and stories of the Hammonds and Bundy lately I was reminded of something which happened in my life 25 years ago. The following is absolutely true although the names have been changed to protect the guilty even though I am sure the statue of limitations has long since passed.

So back in the early 90's when I was still falling timber there was some concern over a bird called the Northern Spotted Owl. So in the fall of the year we were falling a unit of timber for Weyerhaeuser. This was the last patch of old growth in this entire watershed. I think to start the unit was about 80 acres but by this time it was probably down to 15-20 acres left standing. Well first thing one morning Faller B came over and told Faller B to come look at what was in his strip. There sitting on a limb was a pair of owls. Interesting. But not being wildlife biologist how would they know what type of owls these were. So back to work they went and a week of two later finished up falling the unit.

Fast forward to the next summer. Early one Saturday two enforcement agents from US Fish and Wildlife showed up at my door. They very aggressively asked questions in regard to those two owls. What had I seen? Who did I tell? They were there for at least an hour. Of course not being a wildlife biologist I don't know a spotted owl from a barn owl. And being in the woods every day you see all kinds of wildlife all the time so unless something was out of the ordinary why would you tell someone. That was my story and I am sticking to it. When they left I made a phone call to Faller B because I was certain they were headed to his house. Turned out there was a pair of agents already at his house. I no more then hung up the phone and it rang. It was Faller C calling me to tell me that two agents had just left his house and he thought they were headed my way.

It turned out that 16 agents descended on 8 fallers homes all at the same time. This was very orchestrated. The area these fallers live in is probably 40 miles by 20 miles yet they all arrived at the same time. Also I doubt that there are 16 enforcement agents for USF&W in the state so some of these people were imported from outside the area. Also they knew were all 8 lived. Remember this is in the early 90's before everything was available on computers. How did they know who we were and where we lived? They had put in a lot of time, research, and organization. Nothing became of all this but it is one small example of the power the Feds are willing to put behind something.
 
Dave, I worked for the federal govt in the mid 90s and the pool of resources at your disposal was immense back then I can't imagine what it must be like now. The world is shrinking (and I aint talking about available acreage either).
 
They paid me a visit about some birds too. Three of officers. They must have been proud of their pistols because they kept touching them and making every effort for me to see them. Did they make every effort to make you look at their guns?
 
Jogeephus":3s2e3s36 said:
They paid me a visit about some birds too. Three of officers. They must have been proud of their pistols because they kept touching them and making every effort for me to see them. Did they make every effort to make you look at their guns?


Sounds like our local LEO's,....... "I have a star on my car and one on my chest, a gun on by hip and the right to arrest".......
 
Whether it was actually spotted owls or not I am not sure it really mattered to them. A few years later it was decided that the timber cutting in the end had not really changed the numbers of owls that were in the northwest. It sure killed the timber industry and took away a lot of jobs.
In the southeast it is a woodpecker that had the same impact.
 
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There's too much power weilded by fed agents. They are told they are untouchable and they believe it.

Tapping your every conversation is just a quick request away.

Here is something everyone that deals with the feds should read. I can't find the original, but this one has the gist. If you accidentally misremember about any detail during questioning by a federal agent, you could do jail time if they so desire to prosecute you.

Did you know that it is a crime to tell a lie to the federal government? Even if your lie is oral and not under oath? Even if you have received no warnings of any kind? Even if you are not trying to cheat the government out of money? Even if the government is not actually misled by your falsehood? Well it is.

http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/Ho ... ents.shtml
 
Commercialfarmer":2s6v4wjg said:
There's too much power weilded by fed agents. They are told they are untouchable and they believe it.

Tapping your every conversation is just a quick request away.

Here is something everyone that deals with the feds should read. I can't find the original, but this one has the gist. If you accidentally misremember about any detail during questioning by a federal agent, you could do jail time if they so desire to prosecute you.

Did you know that it is a crime to tell a lie to the federal government? Even if your lie is oral and not under oath? Even if you have received no warnings of any kind? Even if you are not trying to cheat the government out of money? Even if the government is not actually misled by your falsehood? Well it is.

http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/Ho ... ents.shtml
I have no use or trust of any of the federal storm trooper alphabet soup agencies.
Still can't read anywhere they are constitutional
 
Where we are drilling in and around McAlester Oklahoma it is the American wood beetle or something like that. We never have San a single one. SSS.
 
Caustic Burno":72jkviug said:
Commercialfarmer":72jkviug said:
There's too much power weilded by fed agents. They are told they are untouchable and they believe it.

Tapping your every conversation is just a quick request away.

Here is something everyone that deals with the feds should read. I can't find the original, but this one has the gist. If you accidentally misremember about any detail during questioning by a federal agent, you could do jail time if they so desire to prosecute you.

Did you know that it is a crime to tell a lie to the federal government? Even if your lie is oral and not under oath? Even if you have received no warnings of any kind? Even if you are not trying to cheat the government out of money? Even if the government is not actually misled by your falsehood? Well it is.

http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/Ho ... ents.shtml
I have no use or trust of any of the federal storm trooper alphabet soup agencies.
Still can't read anywhere they are constitutional
This is why you exercise your 5th amendment right. Also, your county sheriff is your defense against the Feds. Your sheriff and his beliefs should be more important to you as a voter than the president. Your sheriff is supposed to be informed and give permission for federal agencies to operate in your county.
 
kenny thomas":1ebnb9t4 said:
Whether it was actually spotted owls or not I am not sure it really mattered to them. A few years later it was decided that the timber cutting in the end had not really changed the numbers of owls that were in the northwest. It sure killed the timber industry and took away a lot of jobs.
In the southeast it is a woodpecker that had the same impact.
The Ever-so-Sacred Red-Cockaded Woodpecker. :roll:

During "nesting/breed" season, (April-July) I ain't supposed to mow, burn or spray--or make any other kind of "negative impact" on the poor little things. County can't mow the roadsides either and the county also uses these restrictions as an excuse why they can't grade the roads.
1427.gif


These signs are all over the place here:
WG-Jones_0131.jpg
 
Commercialfarmer":1oll70cv said:
There's too much power weilded by fed agents. They are told they are untouchable and they believe it.

Tapping your every conversation is just a quick request away.

Here is something everyone that deals with the feds should read. I can't find the original, but this one has the gist. If you accidentally misremember about any detail during questioning by a federal agent, you could do jail time if they so desire to prosecute you.

Did you know that it is a crime to tell a lie to the federal government? Even if your lie is oral and not under oath? Even if you have received no warnings of any kind? Even if you are not trying to cheat the government out of money? Even if the government is not actually misled by your falsehood? Well it is.

http://www.wisenberglaw.com/Articles/Ho ... ents.shtml

You left out...unless you hold public office, cabinet position, or influence those who do (i.e. Al Charlaton)
 
GB, did you know that noncompliance with these restrictions can be punishable at the same level as if you had shot and killed the bird? Also, failure to perform sylvicultural practices that enhance the habit of the bird on your own property can also lead to the same charges yet the landowner is not compensated in anyway for this intrusion on your rights and liberty and for some reason, the "taking" rules don't apply.
 
dun":11algstp said:
Seems like SSS should be the order of the day!

Sadly, that is the only practical way to deal with them. Years ago, whenever I saw a colony we would work around them and leave an undisturbed buffer around the colonies and they did well. Any day of the week I could take you to five healthy colonies. My problem with the SS storm troopers came when I asked a gov't biologist, (off the record) what was the best way to insure that we could do what we needed to do and not harm the birds. The biologist told me I had no issue because they were too rare and I had never seen one. I thought this was rather arrogant and just because I didn't work for the gov't didn't mean I was stupid so I produced some pictures of one of the colonies and the birds. That Monday I was visited by the gun toting three amigos and was subjected to intimidation. Basically, I told them to go %&^$ themselves and refused to give them any information. The biologist later returned and gave me a book on what I was supposed to do with the regulations and mandates which were totally impractical and bordering on insane. Did you know you are not to go in the woods before 9:00 a.m because if you wake the birds up early they are at risk of getting pneumonia? So this would be construed as being a criminal act.

Its sad, had someone used a little common sense I could show you five healthy colonies today. Or maybe I still can. But of course, if I could I wouldn't because I know NOTHING.
 
kenny thomas":2gmn6kkj said:
Whether it was actually spotted owls or not I am not sure it really mattered to them. A few years later it was decided that the timber cutting in the end had not really changed the numbers of owls that were in the northwest. It sure killed the timber industry and took away a lot of jobs.
In the southeast it is a woodpecker that had the same impact.

There are still vast areas of timber closed to logging to protect the spotted owl. And now they have been finding out the biggest threat to the spotted owl is its cousin the barred owl who seems to be pushing the spotted owl out.

I have a friend who had a pretty big run in with these SS types. It cost him a lot dollars and anguish. His lawyer told him that you ask "am I under arrest?". "Do you have a search warrant?" If the answer is no to both of these questions you tell them to leave and walk back into the house shutting the door behind you.
 
Jogeephus":372bskl5 said:
GB, did you know that noncompliance with these restrictions can be punishable at the same level as if you had shot and killed the bird? Also, failure to perform sylvicultural practices that enhance the habit of the bird on your own property can also lead to the same charges yet the landowner is not compensated in anyway for this intrusion on your rights and liberty and for some reason, the "taking" rules don't apply.

Well, I presented the TFS with my development plan when I first started and they approved it all. They don't care about the trees--they just care about the noise and chemical use during breeding season. Of course, THEY will be doing prescribed burns anywhere and everywhere for thousands of acres from now until fall as long as the humidity is above 30%, but gawd help me if I do it. I'd have to do all my burning in mid winter when the stuff I need to burn is soaking wet.
 
greybeard":2i61hsvz said:
These signs are all over the place here:
WG-Jones_0131.jpg
Oh my gosh.....do you see what they did to that poor defenseless tree that was doing no harm to anyone, minding its own business and just being a tree? :o :o :o Bassturds put the screws to it..... Four times! Them two bottom ones look infected. somebody should be in big trouble over this. :mrgreen:
 
1982vett":6x3vmpjr said:
greybeard":6x3vmpjr said:
These signs are all over the place here:
WG-Jones_0131.jpg
Oh my gosh.....do you see what they did to that poor defenseless tree that was doing no harm to anyone, minding its own business and just being a tree? :o :o :o Bassturds put the screws to it..... Four times! Them two bottom ones look infected. somebody should be in big trouble over this. :mrgreen:
Appropriate, something getting screwed by the government
 

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