The downfall of International Harvester

[larryshoat]

Awesome post, IH!

Amen, great post. My family had used Case since 1934, but when we got that first 4020 it was over.

Larry

 

[curtis]

? on the IH models that have the TA. I have heard mechanics say that when the ta goes bad you can remove it and replace with a shaft. Anyone know for sure?

 

[IH_Fan]

Awesome post, IH!

Thanks!

If IH would have dumped the appliances, NOT taken on Cat or even gotten itself into industrial equipment all together, and finally dumped it's steel mill all by about 1955 (1960 by the latest), IH would have been in a stronger position by the 1970's to deal with the issues that came at it by then end of that decade (the 560 fiasco aside for a minute). But this was typical IH culture: be everything to everybody. I cannot stress enough the drain that it's steel mill became. That Division was called "Wisconsin Steel", by the way. It is dealt with in great detail in Marsh's book, and really sheds a light on how Wisconsin Steel became a real 'albatross' for IH. One more thing - they were also into turbines (Solar) and lawn equipment (Cadet)!! Just illustrating further how spread out they were.

With funds freed up, the new STS transmission could have come out 10 years before it did. Not only that, but a much better cab design as well. IH had these on the drawing boards at the time, but there was never enough money to fully develop them and get them out 10 years earlier, as funds were spread thin because of all the money-hungry industries IH owned.

Speaking of the drain on IH, is the money they pumped into developing the rotary combine - let's not forget that one!! 100's of millions was spent on the technology, by the time it rolled out in 1977. It was very good technology and great engineering, but...... Not every farmer needs to buy a combine as you can get a custom outfit. But every farmer needs a tractor in some form. If IH would have focused on their tractors and left the rotary technology alone for a few more years, that would have helped too. Don't forget, JD did not jump on this (rotary design) very fast and did just that - they were smart and saw the bad BUSINESS DECISION that it was. Again, JD made very good business decisions and they saw the risk at the time in spending so much on combine technology (read: low production item that would take a long time to recover development and production costs) and kept to what they could sell lots of (read: tractors, as an example) and MAKE MONEY.

The IH engine division was very good, both at the US plant and in Europe (Germany in particular). VERY good engines, and second to none in my opinion. When the 400 series came out in 1971 in the 66 series, it was awesome. But when they came out with the 86 series (my favorite) and the 400 B series engine that was another leap in design. As I recall, they were able to slow the engine and get more HP out of it. Unheard of at the time. Not to mention how long they made that engine, that also found it's way into IH trucks and buses as the 444 and 466. When they gambled and went ahead with the 6.9L and the Ford deal, that was very good too.

The real money for IH was always the truck division. With a tractor every little piece IH had to design and then build itself. That means lots of investment dollars due to engineering, testing and making the machines that made the parts (read: expensive). With a truck, it was much easier: design the cab and fame, but put someone elses engine, transmission, front and rear ends, etc in them. There was a great profit margin with the truck Division, and Marsh also confirms this.

I was in college at the time the merger with Case took place. My parents did not survive the 1980's farm collapse, and we had IH red. When the merger took place I was shocked, and truly saddened with what happened to IH. I have a very soft spot for them, and find nice IH equipment for my hobby farm. Lots of IH still out there - they may not have been the best business people, but I really like IH equipment - very well built for the most part.

"if it ain't red, leave it in the shed"!!

 

[johndeerefarmer]

My family ran red equipment from 1941 until 1992. In 1987 we bought several Case-IH items (tractor and disc mower). The tractor a 585 went through a radiator, steering pump, and 2 clutches in about 2500 hours.

When we started looking for our first cab tractor we found that the John Deere 55 series SoundGuard cab was many times better than the Case. So we bought a JD 2555 in 92. We found that the closed center hydraulics, quiet cab, transmission and wet clutch (vs dry on the Case) were fantastic. We sold that 585 in 2001 and have had green equipment every since.

I understand that the old 85 series Case IH tractor were based on the old IH 84 series and thus old and outdated. I don't have any experience with the newer Maxxum's from Case IH but I think that they have finally added power shift trannys, closed center hydraulics and better cabs. So if
Deere got where I could no longer afford it or want it I would look at Case-IH again.

 

[IH_Fan]

Hi Johndeerefarmer - you're right: the CaseIH 85 series (1985 to 1990) was a re-skinned IH 84 series (1977 to 1984) but with a Case engine and not the European IH engine of the true IH 84 series. Here's the thing too: the IH 84 series was a only a mildly updated IH 74 series (1973 to 1977).

But there was an updated version of the CaseIH 85 series, and that was the 95 series (1991 to 1994). From that they went to the CaseIH 4200 series (1994 to 1997). Then to the C series (1998-1999) which used a Perkins engine (don't know why, but it could have emission reasons). These were all decendants of the original IH 74 series first released in 1973. After 1999 and the merger with NH to form CNH under Fiat, the small tractors were some sort of Fiat design/model that I'm not familiar with, as I recall.

So there you have it: They certainly got a lot of mileage out of the original IH 74 series design, for good or bad reasons..... It's too bad your 585 was problematic. We had the IH 674 and many of our neighbors had the 574, all with the IH 1850 loader (popular loader where I grew up for some reason). They were the best tractors of the "big 4" of that size that was in our area (JD, IH, Ford and White). Other brands were not popular as dealerships were too far away. The 74 series was a very good tractor in it's day. The only thing that went on them were the clutches, no doubt because of the loaders that were on them!

 

[john250]

I never owned an IH tractor bigger than a Cub. It still works 10 hr/yr in my garden. A high quality useful machine, I say.
I did own an IH truck. A 1600 school bus yellow truck with a 250 bu grain bed on it. 345 cu in motor with God's own torque and a redline around 2000 rpm. They were designed for the very gently rolling terrain of Northern Illinois. Give it a little throttle at the bottom of the downgrade and you would roll right over the next upgrade. Outside of that environment, it was not a great truck. Around here, with our sharper upgrades, you were limited to granny gear. And it would tow the moon in granny gear. The 1-2 upshift on an upgrade was worthy of a truck driver hall of fame nomination.
I cannot complain, overall. That was a heck of a truck for it's time. I paid $2000 for it used. I delivered a lot of corn with her.