Thanks to all who answer our questions.

[sxr007]

This is the first time that I have posted here, but have been reading and learning for the last two months. I have actually went through all the posts and read any that applied to what I am starting. Thank you so much to helping me get on my own two feet.

I have purchased 60 acres in Missouri just outside a small town I live in. The land was first going to be subdived out by me and sold off. The only reason I purchased it was to have land to build my own house. I have now fell in love with the land and realize that if I sold it, I would miss the land. Anyway, the land came with a nice small 3 bedroom home we are moving into because we sold our house in town. We will be living there untill we build our house on the hill overlooking my new cattle.

I have taking your advice and started small and with a buyer (also a family friend who owns a small livestock auction barn). The buyer knows of an older gentlemen that will be retiring and selling his cattle at his auction. He plans on picking up 8-10 2nd and 3rd stage 5 year old cows for me as long as the price is right. He figures they will run me $850-$900. I have contacted another local farmer I ran into at the sale barn and he is hauling the cattle the 200 mile roundtrip for me for $120 (hanging out there I found out that black and black baldies do sell for more $$).

I plan on retaining my heifers out of that bunch to increase my quantity of cows. That way those heifers will not be related to my bull. I will start looking for a bull in a month or so to breed to my cows. When I look for a bull my number one priority will be calving ease because I work away from home and am gone half the time. I do have a friend who will check on my cows along with my retired dad. One steer will be retained for dinner steaks as well.

My pasture is approximately 50 acres after I finish brushhogging the 17 acres I am working on. The 17 acres was overgrown with brush head high. The other part of the land has been used as hay fields and is in good shape except for some sage growing. I plan on liming the pasture and also the 17 acres to help kill out some of the unwanted sage and brush.

I received 80 round bales and 250 square bales that were left on the property when I purchased it. This is more then enough bales for me. I plan on using as much as possible now. The previous owner had rented the pasture out and there were 23 horses on it. They have ate the grass down a lot this winter. The hay will allow some pasture to recover.

I appreciate the experienced farmers helping us newbies out. Some questions I have is:

1. When I cross my black baldie cows with a hereford bull, do I get black baldies still?

2. My brother-in-law (a hay farmer) says the sage is a sign of pasture needing lime. Will the lime help my pasture and also the brush?

3. I have heard to feed my hay in the 17 acres of brushhogged brush to help kill out the brush. The cattle will stomp and eat it out. There is pasture there now under the brush. Does this sound correct?

4. I know my hay will be good next winter but is there a possibiltiy it will last two years? I understand there would be waste in each bale by then. The round bales are sitting outside and string wrapped the square bales are in the barn.

5. Should I move my hay bales? They are lined up now along the fence rows where the cows can get to them. But, with so many bales, why not let them have it it if they want.

Again, thanks for your knowledge. The things I am doing is because of you all sharing your thoughts.

 

[Campground Cattle]

Sorry I don't remember all the Questions but txag is our genetics expert.

You will get 3/4 black baldies and a 1/4 redbaldies if the black cows are the carrier of a red recessive gene.

Move the hay cows will tear up alot more than they eat pure waste.

As far as land management in your are there are a lot of qualified members like Dun and a few others in your area.

 

[jerry27150]

1 you will get some black baldies & some red baldies
2 don't know about sage
3 yes
4 yes it will keep ,but more rots off the bottom each year
5 if you leave them there they will destroy more than they eat, i'd move them or put electric fence around them

 

[denoginnizer]

I would like to answer number 2. It is best to get soil samples.The soil samples are the only real way of knowing what your pasture needs. Also I think regular mowing will help your brush problem.

 

[TheBullLady]

Regarding the hay bales lined up next to the fence. I would move them also.. because of the waste, and also if the cows may tear up fence trying to get around or on top of the bales. You also have to watch that the calves don't get caught between them when they're in a row.

 

[txag]

hi sxr007. welcome to the boards.

if the cows are true black baldies (angus/herefords) and bred back to a hereford bull, you should expect half of the calves to be red baldies and half to be black baldies. they should also show more white (hereford pattern) than their dams.

as for the hay, i certainly wouldn't leave it where the cows can get to it. i think someone else already mentioned that the problem is not that they'll eat too much of it but that they'll tear it up. cows tend to love to rub and push on hay bales.

if you don't want to move them, one possibility might be to put up an electric fence around them.

the best way we've found to store them outside is flat end to flat end in a long row. depending on your rainfall and humidity they should last two years but won't be near as good as the first year. the square bales in the barn should be fine.

good luck.

 

[sidney411]

I would have to agree with all of the answers to the questions so I will try to answer #3. Yes, I would feed the hay in the sorriest part of the pasture you have. Where you feed hay is going to get torn up and muddy so you don't want to tear up your good pasture. Put it in round bale feeders and move the feeders when the ground around the feeder gets sloppy. It will help fertilize that area a bit and get rid of some of the brush and the cattle may eat more in that area near the feeders from convience. After you quit feeding hay I would drag and renovate the areas that the cattle were fed in then you could fertilize, lime, and spray those areas for more brush control.

 

[certherfbeef]

Put it in round bale feeders and move the feeders when the ground around the feeder gets sloppy. It will help fertilize that area a bit and get rid of some of the brush and the cattle may eat more in that area near the feeders from convience. After you quit feeding hay I would drag and renovate the areas that the cattle were fed in then you could fertilize, lime, and spray those areas for more brush control.

Sidney is right again on the #3 question.

I have multiflora rose bushes in one section of the winter pasture pretty heavy. That is where I feed hay. But I don't use the rings in that area. I back up to a jigger drop the bale and then set it on end. The cows will waller around and stomp out the jiggers for the most part. It seems wastful but they also have a dry place to lay as well. But be careful, where that hay lays will get you stuck quicker than anything. Come spring time, just disc it up spray and broadcast clover, timothy, or anything that will grow well in your area.
Then make sure you keep it brush hogged.

the best way we've found to store them outside is flat end to flat end in a long row.

I have seen Txag make this statement before. I don't know about MO, but here we are way to wet. I store bales outside end to end in long row too. But I do not let them touch. That traps the rain between them as well and I get as much rot on the ends that touch as I do on the bottom. And that renders the hay useless for feed after one year. Just some regional differences there.

Good Luck, have fun!!

 

[dun]

I don't know about MO, but here we are way to wet. I store bales outside end to end in long row too. But I do not let them touch. That traps the rain between them as well and I get as much rot on the ends that touch as I do on the bottom. And that renders the hay useless for feed after one year. Just some regional differences there.

Good Luck, have fun!!

In this part of MO storing them end to end touching isn;t a problem. We don;t get enough snow to cause a problem, but they have to be nailed tight to each other. The problem here is if the sides are touching each other. Stacked is even worse, unless they're tarped.

dun

 

[sidney411]

When we stack the hay we ram them end to end as hard as we can push them with the tractor. The ends stay pretty looking. The rows can't touch or they will rot the sides of the bales bad. More long rows are better then a bunch of short rows. I would like to build an open sided hay barn in the future. Even the bales that were baled this year are rotted on the bottom. I remember reading somewhere that as much as 25% of the hay in a round bale can be ruined from sitting out in the weather. That is a lot of waste. With the price of hay I'm sure a pole barn would pay for itself pretty quickly if I could scrape enough together to get one up.

 

[Dave]

I don't believe I have ever heard of sage being a sign of an acid soil. Could you mean sedge? Sedges are often a sign of a wet soil which is also often acid. A soil test is cheap and will tell you what is there. It is much better to test than to guess.

Dave

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

Sage--"broom's edge" that's sage, isn't it? Anyhow, we limed a pasture that was being taken by broom's edge--took 2 years to see the results, but it has made a tremendous diference.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

If by "Sage" you mean "sagebrush" (i.e., Russian Thistle), the stuff has a rather high nitrate level. Cattle will eat the green stuff (at least our Longhorns will); however, they need pasture and/or hay to offset the nitrate level. Russian Thistle (not to be confused with "Thistle") is a perennial. Mowing helps if it is done before it gets too high. This stuff grows well on alkaline soil and its presence is a sign of overgrazing a pasture.

Most grasses, trees & shrubs, small grains, etc., do best in a pH level of 6.5 to 7.5 (7.0 is neutral). Soil test will confirm one's pH level. I personally wouldn't lime anything unless the pH level was below 6.0 and/or you were growing an "acid loving" crop. The more natural rainfall an area has the lower the pH level is...high pH levels are related to semi-arid and arid conditions. The pH scale is 0 to 14--it is Logrithmic. Think a serious acid (Phosphoric, Nitric, Sulfuric, etc.) being in the 1-4 range and "Drano" or the other serious Alkali's as being 10 to 14. I think Vinegar is about a 4.0 pH level.

 

[Ryder]

Sage--"broom's edge" that's sage, isn't it? Anyhow, we limed a pasture that was being taken by broom's edge--took 2 years to see the results, but it has made a tremendous diference.

That's interesting. Always thought it was 'broom sedge', now you tell me it is 'broom's edge'. Wonder if the pronunciation is a regional thing? Could be I have always misundestood what I heard and never saw it written before.

Never saw much use for it exept it burns good if you want to set the woods on fire. Although that is usually more of a problem than a use.

 

[Farmhand]

dun, sounds like you may know a little about stacking hay. I would like your opinion please. We personally stack our bales end to end, side to side, and on top of each other. Have had really good luck doing this so we really never thought about changing. Difference is they are up on our place instead of out in a field. They have no cover and not really placed to try and give them some protection. We do have quite a few buildings but are not considerably close together. Could this have anything to do with why they seem to keep well or have we just gotten lucky. Also, around here there are a lot of people who turn their bales up on end and stack side by side then they lay a row on top flat and end to end. Kind of look like trees real close together. Hope I explained this well enough so you can picture it. Is there any advantage to this? They have been doing this for a long time. Thanks.

 

[dun]

Sage--"broom's edge" that's sage, isn't it? Anyhow, we limed a pasture that was being taken by broom's edge--took 2 years to see the results, but it has made a tremendous diference.

It's "broom sedge". Although it isn;t one of the true sedges. One guy up hear calls it golden bluestem. But it's still a sing on poor conditions. Low ph, but low general fertility is also a strong contributor.

dun

 

[dun]

They have no cover and not really placed to try and give them some protection. We do have quite a few buildings but are not considerably close together. Could this have anything to do with why they seem to keep well or have we just gotten lucky. Also, around here there are a lot of people who turn their bales up on end and stack side by side then they lay a row on top flat and end to end. Kind of look like trees real close together. Hope I explained this well enough so you can picture it. Is there any advantage to this? They have been doing this for a long time. Thanks.

I've seen the stuff stacked on on then on edge on top, but only in barns. The problem with stacking outside is the moisture collects between te upper bales and the lower ones and end up with rot spots. End to end takes more space, but if it's outside and not rtarped it seems to create less waste. A couple of inches of rock laid down and the hay stacked on it will nearly, unless it floods, eliminate the bottom rotton stuff.

dun

 

[Farmhand]

Thanks, dun. Never thought about the rock. Explains a little bit of our luck too. Apreciate the help.

 

[dun]

Two loadsof 2 inch clean runs around 250 bucks delivered. Doesn;t take much savings on the bottom bales to make up for the cost. Even if it's put on a high spot without the rock you'll still get moisture creeping into those bottom bales.
This is another one of those, "Been there, done that" and hopefully I learned from it. I have a guy that will buy the junky stuff anyway, but I get another 2 bucks a bale for them if they've been stored on rock.

dun

 

[Workinonit Farm]

sxr007 welcome.
#2-get a soil test before doing the lime and fert. It'll give you a better idea as to what ammendments need to be made.
#3- yes, do feed them in that pasture, keep moving the location of the hay as this will help "mash" up the area. Then till it, smooth it and re-seed it and keep them off of it for a good while.
#4 & 5- The hay stored inside wil be fine, it loses some nutritional value with time, but it should be fine. The hay outside, if cows have access to it, fence it off, they will only "trash" it. If you try to move it, that would be too messy and time consuming. Better off putting up a couple of hot wires.
Good luck. Glad to hear you will not subdivide and develop. Keep it a farm. Have fun.

Katherine