Terminology

[AngusLimoX]

Do a google on first calf heifers - lots of management advice although a lot of it is dairy related.

I seem to recall the term is used in some beef herdbooks to describe a heifer that calved under 30 months. ( Simmentall? ).

I like learning how other folks describe things and the management reasons behind them. That's what the boards are for.

The first 1/2 dozen I bought were described to me as first calf heifers. At the time I was kinda proud to know what the term heifer meant so that sent me for a loop!

ALX

 

[Sir Loin]

X,
Re:

The first 1/2 dozen I bought were described to me as first calf heifers.

Were they bred back?
If they weren't you probably could have had them bred back for free, or very little cost in a package deal.
And in a year or so you could buy a bull to bred your ½ dozen cows and possibly your ½ dozen new heifers.

Or were they with a calf at their side to generate you income as steers without waiting for the next batch of new calves after breeding?

When buying heifers, or cows, you need to specify exactly what you want when ordering.
Do you want them"
Open (unbred)
Covered (bred)
Calf by their side open
Calf by their side and bred back. (3 in 1 )

Now do want a cow? (any age)
A heifer (open or bred) (never had a calf)
A first or second time heifer ( had one or two calves) and can be open or breed.
SL

 

[AngusLimoX]

Were they bred back?
SL

Well one was, the Brown Swiss was bred back to a holstein.
Our very first freezer calf! :lol: :lol:

ALX

 

[somn]

Perhaps I can shed some light on this for you.
In every day talk to say heifer (meaning has never been bred or calved) and to say cow (has had at least one calf) is correct.
But when you are selling or buying you need to be a little more specific as to exactly what you are selling or buying to maximize profit or reduce your risk.
It goes like this:
1. un-bred heifer (open) (buyer will use his own bull for breeding and take all the risk.)
2. bred heifer (covered) (bred to sellers bull, but as yet has not given birth.)
3. 1St time heifer ( open or covered) (bred to seller's bull, and has given birth.) Sold as "first time heifer with calf at her side". This allows the buyer the maximum number of future cows and heifers to breed to his bull later on.
It also gives him a quick return on his investment from the bull/steers calves which he will sell at weaning, while at the same time proves the heifers will breed and have no problems giving birth, reducing his risk. And it also helps with adjusting his next breeding season as he can wean early or late as needed and still have an income that year.
4. Same goes for second time heifers. This is just a little added insurance that the heifer will breed back after calving and have no problem calving the second time.
2nd time heifers is mainly to check if she will breed back after giving birth and how long it takes and may be sold as both 2nd time heifer (covered, bred AKA 3 in 1, just like the oil.) or calf by her side (bred by sellers bull).

After that they are generally sold or bought as "cows", open, covered or calf by their side.

The exact breaking point between heifer and cow is always after the breed back or 2nd birth, as all stages of her reproductive cycle have been proven at those points.
SL

Here a first calf steer is not a steer that has had 1 calf. It is the first bull calf out of a heifer. Using that mindset I always understood a first calf heifer to be the first heifer calf born from a heifer. I assumed a second calf heifer was the second heifer calf born from the female. A first calf steer will not kill as heavy as a second calf steer from the same female. I'm not sure if they will wean at the same weights but they certainly will not finish at the same weights if all things are equal.

 

[Sir Loin]

Here a first calf steer is not a steer that has had 1 calf.

:?:

What are you smoking?
Run that by me again!
SL

 

[backhoeboogie]

Here a first calf steer is not a steer that has had 1 calf.

:?:

What are you smoking?
Run that by me again!
SL

SL, somn actually makes sense to me this time. What he refers to as "first calf heifer/steer" is the first calf out. Usually that calf will be a bit lighter than the rest of the calves that cow has. It actually makes more sense to me than referring to a cow as a hiefer, second calf, third calf, tenth calf - whatever.

If I am buying a pen of heifers, I expect all of them to have never birthed. If someone tried to pull the wool over my eyes with BS, I'd keep my nickels in my pocket. Why not say, that cow has had her first calf?

 

[Sir Loin]

OMG, have you people had your water tested for lead lately?
Re:

SL, somn actually makes sense to me this time. What he refers to as "first calf heifer/steer" is the first calf out.

Any calf a heifer, or cow, has can only be a heifer or bull calf and never a steer unless you count atresia or cryptorchidism as a steer.

If a heifer or cow gives birth to a steer, who is, or was, in there doing the banding or castration to create a steer from a bull before birth.
You or your vet? And wasn't it a little crowded while you were doing the castration in that little heifer?
Get real people!

Re:

Usually that calf will be a bit lighter than the rest of the calves that cow (heifer injected) has.

That is true and that is another reason a buyer will buy only second time heifers. It's so he can check calving weight of the calves as the heifer matures another year.
I have never heard of anyone wanting to buy past a second time heifer that has proven herself. At that point they are simply sold as young or old breeding stock, open or coved, with or without calf by their side, or bred back or not.

Re:

If I am buying a pen of heifers, I expect all of them to have never birthed.

Fine, and that is exactly what you will get.
Now by your definition be ready to bottle feed the entire pen twice a day because they maybe only a week old or they maybe 10 or 15 years old.
Now exactly what were you looking for?

As for

keep my nickels in my pocket.

I was going to suggest you do just that until you know exactly what you are trying to buy and how to tell the seller exactly what you want to buy.

Have you ever written, or even seen, a request for quote for cattle?
SL

 

[backhoeboogie]

Have you ever written, or even seen, a request for quote for cattle?
SL

I have never written a cattle request myself. Yes indeed I have seen many. Too many to even being to count.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Heifer and cow to me is no different than filly and mare. It is a descriptive name given an animal that designates a specific meaning.

 

[Sir Loin]

FYI:

Ad Information

18 FANCY Angus/Angus cross, all black, 1st calf heifers with calves at side. BIG(400 to 500lbs) A.I. sired calves by 2x15 and natural sired calves at side by a son of 878. Bangs vacced, pelvic measured, B.S. Gold vacc program. Complete birthdates and records of calves.

Price 1500 per pair

Source: http://cattletoday.com/classifieds.htm

 

[backhoeboogie]

18 FANCY Angus/Angus cross, all black, 1st calf heifers with calves at side. BIG(400 to 500lbs) A.I. sired calves by 2x15 and natural sired calves at side by a son of 878. Bangs vacced, pelvic measured, B.S. Gold vacc program. Complete birthdates and records of calves.

Price 1500 per pair

Source: http://cattletoday.com/classifieds.htm[/quote]

I wouldn't bite if I were in the market. Honestly. It purely sounds like someone doesn't know cattle, plain and simple. I'm 11th generation. Never heard second calf heifer til I came to this forum. I'm not the only one either.

 

[Wewild]

Never heard second calf heifer til I came to this forum. I'm not the only one either.

Me either.

 

[somn]

Here a first calf steer is not a steer that has had 1 calf.

:?:

What are you smoking?
Run that by me again!
SL

What part do you not understand you seem to be the all knowing cattle man. Do you meen to tell me you think it is possible for a steer to have a calf. You try telling us a first calf heifer is a heifer that has had one calf so by your definition a first calf steer would be a steer that has also had one calf. Maybe you should adjust the contrast or something on your computer screen apparently you can't read real well. Let me cut and paste what I typed before. Here a first calf steer is not a steer that has had 1 calf. It is the first bull calf out of a heifer. Where did you ever come up with the idea we castrated it in inside the heifer? Is that something you have tried to do there in Tennesse before? I must say if that is something you have tried to do in Tennesse you are most certainly a pioneer in that field. How did you say that before Get Real People!

 

[Caustic Burno]

18 FANCY Angus/Angus cross, all black, 1st calf heifers with calves at side. BIG(400 to 500lbs) A.I. sired calves by 2x15 and natural sired calves at side by a son of 878. Bangs vacced, pelvic measured, B.S. Gold vacc program. Complete birthdates and records of calves.

Price 1500 per pair

Source: http://cattletoday.com/classifieds.htm

I wouldn't bite if I were in the market. Honestly. It purely sounds like someone doesn't know cattle, plain and simple. I'm 11th generation. Never heard second calf heifer til I came to this forum. I'm not the only one either.[/quote]

Sounds more like a snakeoil salesman than a cattleman. I am with you Boogie.

 

[dun]

Careful, you'll give snakeoil salesman a bad name

 

[Earl Thigpen]

I thought I'd get my two cents worth in before this is locked.

Ist calf heifer, 2nd calf heifer, etc is like saying the lady is a little bit pregnant - she is or she ain't. The animal is either a heifer or a cow. It's just plain misleading to say a second calf heifer and I don't even know why someone would say that. It means absolutely nothing to anyone who has been around cattle for more than thirty seconds.

What about saying a steered bull or a cut bull. Same thing, he is either cut or he's not.

 

[txag]

I wouldn't bite if I were in the market. Honestly. It purely sounds like someone doesn't know cattle, plain and simple. I'm 11th generation. Never heard second calf heifer til I came to this forum. I'm not the only one either.

does the word "tigerstripe" ring a bell? wonder what other terms you've never heard? :lol:


try a google search for "2nd calf heifers"....it's not an uncommon term & it doesn't seem to be limited to one area. technically, it's incorrect, because a female bovine that has calved is a cow, not a heifer, but it's used to denote a cow (usually a three year old) that is due with or has her 2nd calf.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... gle+Search

the "heiferette" comment was made because of an old thread about that term: http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic. ... heiferette ...........see, even ol' Caustic has learned a thing or two from these boards. :lol:

just because someone's never heard of a term, doesn't mean it's not a valid term & used by others. personally, if i didn't understand a term used when i was buying cattle, i'd ask for a clarification.

 

[Sir Loin]

Well you country boys better get use to it because with all this new micro managing you will be hearing a lot more of it.
In other words, if you expect to run with the big dogs you are going to have to get off the porch.
And, just because you don't like the message that's still no reason to shoot the messenger.
SL

 

[somn]

Well you country boys better get use to it because with all this new micro managing you will be hearing a lot more of it.
In other words, if you expect to run with the big dogs you are going to have to get off the porch.
And, just because you don't like the message that's still no reason to shoot the messenger.
SL

Well I guess this country boy needs for you to help me to better understand the message is a first calf steer/bull a steer/bull that has given birth to a calf then? Or would it be fair to say probably not. The big dogs you speak of are smart enough to know the difference between a heifer and a cow also. Believe me there is a difference. It is called birth.

 

[Sir Loin]

FYI:

Selling January 15, 2007
National Western Simmental Sale
Denver, CO
Owned by S&A Cattle Co, Hilbrands Simmental and Boehland Cattle CO

Unique Solution is destined to be a calving ease deluxe herd bull. Starting in this world with a 70 pound birth weight, Solution has developed into an outstanding bull prospect with a 205 adj. weight of 845 off a first calf heifer.

FYI;
Understanding the Federal Tax Deferral - Advisors Guide

Definition of "Breeding Herd" is important
If you sell more bred heifers than cows, this may pose a problem through the definition of "breeding herd". The determination of the size of the breeding herd limit eligible sales. In particular, if 1st calf bred heifers exceed 50% of the cowherd; the inventory is limited to that 50% restriction.

Source: http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... endocument
ource: http://www.ebersale.com/forsale.htm