TAI Program

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SHORTHORNMAN

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I am having problem with my TAI program ever since they took Estradiol off of the market. My ABS rep gave me the following new program
Day 1 Put CIDR in and injection of Factrel
Day 7 Pull CIDR and injection Estumate
72 - 84 Hours - AI and injection of Factrel

We did a group of 5 head and only had 1 that was in standing heat. I had Estrotect heat detectors on all 5. None of the others came in heat even after we AI'd. We wend ahead and AI all 5 head. We only got 1 pregnant and that was the 1 that was in standing heat. My AI technician said that he was having problems getting them to settle ever since they took Estradiol off of the market. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance
 
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SHORTHORNMAN

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I have all of our cows on Vitaferm Conceptaid mineral program. Free choice salt. I know it is not my nutrition program
 

wbvs58

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You must have been having trouble for a while or had a good stockpile of the stuff. Ever since I have been on CT which has been a while now Estrodiol has not been available in the US, I'm guessing about 10 years. I assume you are in the US.
I do agree with you though, we still have it available to use on beef cattle in Australia, not allowed on dairy cattle I think. It gives very predictable results, I find just under half will show estrus at 48hrs post PG and the rest will on the following day after 1mg of estrodiol, very rarely do you get one not standing. I've never synched without it but I believe people are getting similar results using LH. I often wonder whether the estrodiol actually produces artificial signs of estrus on an occaisional one without actually ovulating but overall I am happy we can still use it.

Ken
 

WinterSpringsFarm

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Sometimes it just the year. What was your weather and grass like?

I've had a year (2018) where I got ZERO response from my GNRH, CIDR, LUT program, and the following year I had 100% response with a 87.5% conception rate (AI and ET). My vet blamed the epic amounts of rain, and late spring for the lack of response to the drugs in the spring of 2018. My mineral and nutrition program were not different.
 

VaCowman

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SHORTHORNMAN said:
I am having problem with my TAI program ever since they took Estradiol off of the market. My ABS rep gave me the following new program
Day 1 Put CIDR in and injection of Factrel
Day 7 Pull CIDR and injection Estumate
72 - 84 Hours - AI and injection of Factrel

We did a group of 5 head and only had 1 that was in standing heat. I had Estrotect heat detectors on all 5. None of the others came in heat even after we AI'd. We wend ahead and AI all 5 head. We only got 1 pregnant and that was the 1 that was in standing heat. My AI technician said that he was having problems getting them to settle ever since they took Estradiol off of the market. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance

We used that protocol for a couple of years and got along well. We have switched it up a bit in the last few years, but still getting cows bred. Some years its just like the stars line up, while others not so much. We average over 60% on synchronized heats, and over 80% on natural heats with AI. We use Cystorellin (instead of Factrel) and HighCon Lute (instead of Estrumate) on the cows we sync. No difference in our response using different drugs, but we can get the Cystorellin and HighCon Lute cheaper through our supplier. I do think we get a "hotter heat" with the HC Lute, but that's based on observation only.
 
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SHORTHORNMAN

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wbvs58 said:
You must have been having trouble for a while or had a good stockpile of the stuff. Ever since I have been on CT which has been a while now Estrodiol has not been available in the US, I'm guessing about 10 years. I assume you are in the US.
I do agree with you though, we still have it available to use on beef cattle in Australia, not allowed on dairy cattle I think. It gives very predictable results, I find just under half will show estrus at 48hrs post PG and the rest will on the following day after 1mg of estrodiol, very rarely do you get one not standing. I've never synched without it but I believe people are getting similar results using LH. I often wonder whether the estrodiol actually produces artificial signs of estrus on an occaisional one without actually ovulating but overall I am happy we can still use it.

Ken

Are you saying that they basically go through a silent heat?
 

wbvs58

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Only my suspicion that an occaisional one will show estrus as a result of the estrodiol but not actually ovulate so the exact opposite of a "silent heat".

Ken
 

Redgully

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I recently saw a farm who watched their herd every day for ten days, anything not showing heat then received two shots of lutylise 12 hours apart. Then they heat detected and ai'd anything showing any estrus over the next few days. The rest got the same treatment 7 days later. Then turned out with bull. He reckons they were getting good results like that but was fairly time consuming. He wants to try inseminating all ten hours after first cows showing heat and see what results he gets.
 

Hpacres440p

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Pulled blood on 2 cows 30 days post TAI-both pregnant. At 35 days now, both bellowing but not mounting. Watch and wait I guess?
 

kentuckyguy

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I’m a firm believer even though they are stuck that something goes on with hormones still around that 20 day mark.

Last fall I had several that would still act different around the 20 day mark. Not eat as much grain, grouchy, bawling. But no mounting or sniffing other cows. None of them had rubbed patches when turned in with the bull.
 

Hpacres440p

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kentuckyguy said:
I’m a firm believer even though they are stuck that something goes on with hormones still around that 20 day mark.

Last fall I had several that would still act different around the 20 day mark. Not eat as much grain, grouchy, bawling. But no mounting or sniffing other cows. None of them had rubbed patches when turned in with the bull.

Update-redrew blood at 57 days due to estrotect patch changing colors and some more frequent bellowing-both still pregnant, so I’ll agree with your theory-thanks for the reassurance!
 

Till-Hill

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Next time insert cidr and administer gnrh on Monday, Sunday whatever time you pick say 5 pm give prostaglandin product, Monday same time as prostaglandin shot pull cidr, Wednesday breed same time you did other things. Prostaglandin and pulling cidr at same time your going to have watch heats for 3 days to get any conception rates worth breeding cows. Every one wants easy and results. Takes some work to get the cake
 
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SHORTHORNMAN

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SHORTHORNMAN said:
I am having problem with my TAI program ever since they took Estradiol off of the market. My ABS rep gave me the following new program
Day 1 Put CIDR in and injection of Factrel
Day 7 Pull CIDR and injection Estumate
72 - 84 Hours - AI and injection of Factrel

We did a group of 5 head and only had 1 that was in standing heat. I had Estrotect heat detectors on all 5. None of the others came in heat even after we AI'd. We wend ahead and AI all 5 head. We only got 1 pregnant and that was the 1 that was in standing heat. My AI technician said that he was having problems getting them to settle ever since they took Estradiol off of the market. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance

We AI'd 6 head last month. 5 head were AI and 1 head we put a frozen embryo in. We settled everything but 1 AI heifer. That gives me a 83% conception . We did have to carry them to our AI technician for heat detection. Even though we gave shots and pulled CIDR's at the same time all of them did not come in at the same time. There was as much as 48 hours difference between them when they came in standing heat. That is the best conception rates that I have ever had.
 

Stickney94

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Till-Hill said:
Next time insert cidr and administer gnrh on Monday, Sunday whatever time you pick say 5 pm give prostaglandin product, Monday same time as prostaglandin shot pull cidr, Wednesday breed same time you did other things. Prostaglandin and pulling cidr at same time your going to have watch heats for 3 days to get any conception rates worth breeding cows. Every one wants easy and results. Takes some work to get the cake

So, just so I'm clear:
Mon - CIDR and GNRH (does this time matter?)
Sun (6 days later) -- Give prostaglandin at set time
Mon (7 days later) -- pull cidr at same time as protaglandin shot on sunday
Wed (9 days later -- breed at same time as Mon/Sun events. (can the time be 8 am? or is it better to do later in the day?)

We've always pulled cidr and given prostaglandin shot on Monday due to AI tech's recommendation. The past three years have had poor 1st time conception rates, so I'm very open to trying something different.

Is there any reason/science behind the earlier prostaglandin shot? Or is it just your experience?

Thanks!
 
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SHORTHORNMAN

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Stickney94 said:
Till-Hill said:
Next time insert cidr and administer gnrh on Monday, Sunday whatever time you pick say 5 pm give prostaglandin product, Monday same time as prostaglandin shot pull cidr, Wednesday breed same time you did other things. Prostaglandin and pulling cidr at same time your going to have watch heats for 3 days to get any conception rates worth breeding cows. Every one wants easy and results. Takes some work to get the cake

So, just so I'm clear:
Mon - CIDR and GNRH (does this time matter?)
Sun (6 days later) -- Give prostaglandin at set time
Mon (7 days later) -- pull cidr at same time as protaglandin shot on sunday
Wed (9 days later -- breed at same time as Mon/Sun events. (can the time be 8 am? or is it better to do later in the day?)

We've always pulled cidr and given prostaglandin shot on Monday due to AI tech's recommendation. The past three years have had poor 1st time conception rates, so I'm very open to trying something different.

Is there any reason/science behind the earlier prostaglandin shot? Or is it just your experience?

Thanks!

This was the program we used

Day 1 Put CIDR in and injection of Factrel
Day 7 Pull CIDR and injection Estumate
Standing Heat (24 - 72 Hours later)- AI and injection of Factrel
 

Till-Hill

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Stickney94 said:
Till-Hill said:
Next time insert cidr and administer gnrh on Monday, Sunday whatever time you pick say 5 pm give prostaglandin product, Monday same time as prostaglandin shot pull cidr, Wednesday breed same time you did other things. Prostaglandin and pulling cidr at same time your going to have watch heats for 3 days to get any conception rates worth breeding cows. Every one wants easy and results. Takes some work to get the cake

So, just so I'm clear:
Mon - CIDR and GNRH (does this time matter?)
Sun (6 days later) -- Give prostaglandin at set time
Mon (7 days later) -- pull cidr at same time as protaglandin shot on sunday
Wed (9 days later -- breed at same time as Mon/Sun events. (can the time be 8 am? or is it better to do later in the day?)

We've always pulled cidr and given prostaglandin shot on Monday due to AI tech's recommendation. The past three years have had poor 1st time conception rates, so I'm very open to trying something different.

Is there any reason/science behind the earlier prostaglandin shot? Or is it just your experience?

Thanks!
Shots and pull and breed at all the same times.
Read the bag of cidrs, it's what they recommend and it's what works. 70% on over 100 head on 2 years. I'll stick to it
 

Buck Randall

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Stickney94 said:
Till-Hill said:
Next time insert cidr and administer gnrh on Monday, Sunday whatever time you pick say 5 pm give prostaglandin product, Monday same time as prostaglandin shot pull cidr, Wednesday breed same time you did other things. Prostaglandin and pulling cidr at same time your going to have watch heats for 3 days to get any conception rates worth breeding cows. Every one wants easy and results. Takes some work to get the cake

So, just so I'm clear:
Mon - CIDR and GNRH (does this time matter?)
Sun (6 days later) -- Give prostaglandin at set time
Mon (7 days later) -- pull cidr at same time as protaglandin shot on sunday
Wed (9 days later -- breed at same time as Mon/Sun events. (can the time be 8 am? or is it better to do later in the day?)

We've always pulled cidr and given prostaglandin shot on Monday due to AI tech's recommendation. The past three years have had poor 1st time conception rates, so I'm very open to trying something different.

Is there any reason/science behind the earlier prostaglandin shot? Or is it just your experience?

Thanks!

Prostaglandin causes the CL to regress, lowering the cow's circulating progesterone and resulting in ovulation. One shot of prostaglandin isn't always enough to regress the CL, but a second one almost always finishes the job.
 

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