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I guess I feel the general public doesn't have a clue of the dynamics of Farming. Here in the Corm belt a $.20-$.30 swing in the price of corn has a huge impact on profits. We are seeing a $1-2.00 up swing in the prices. As I said before when farmers make money they spent it. This in turn spurs growth in the economy. The local economy here will benefit. You all think I'm crazy but I think some of the tractor dealers are going to be like a Harley dealer. I know for a fact that there is a waiting list on certain hp. Tractors. Hey I both sell and buy feeder cattle so I understand the pros and cons of this bull market. The future looks one heck of lot better than it did in the 80's :)
 
regenwether":8nevuae9 said:
I guess I feel the general public doesn't have a clue of the dynamics of Farming. Here in the Corm belt a $.20-$.30 swing in the price of corn has a huge impact on profits. We are seeing a $1-2.00 up swing in the prices. As I said before when farmers make money they spent it. This in turn spurs growth in the economy. The local economy here will benefit. You all think I'm crazy but I think some of the tractor dealers are going to be like a Harley dealer. I know for a fact that there is a waiting list on certain hp. Tractors. Hey I both sell and buy feeder cattle so I understand the pros and cons of this bull market. The future looks one heck of lot better than it did in the 80's :)


Your talking pennies in the money that changes hands on the NYSE. Do you really think a farmer buying a combine effects the Stock Exchange thats funny.
These are the type corporations that effect Wall Street
Exxon Mobil
ConocoPhillips
Wal-Mart Stores
General Electric
General Motors
Citigroup
Chevron
AIG
Ford Motor
IBM
Thats happens to be last years top ten of fortune 500 companies.
You could take every hayseed farmer in the corn belt and not effect Wall Street. Billions change hands here every day.
Now the traders in commodities market can swing Wall Street you can't. I run a lot of stock in that pasture you should never invest anything in a single company stock you can not afford to loose. It all depends on your risk factor gain big lose big gain a little lose a little.
Anything from Company Stock's to Muni's.
 
regenwether":21orx25r said:
I guess I feel the general public doesn't have a clue of the dynamics of Farming. Here in the Corm belt a $.20-$.30 swing in the price of corn has a huge impact on profits. We are seeing a $1-2.00 up swing in the prices. As I said before when farmers make money they spent it. This in turn spurs growth in the economy. The local economy here will benefit. You all think I'm crazy but I think some of the tractor dealers are going to be like a Harley dealer. I know for a fact that there is a waiting list on certain hp. Tractors. Hey I both sell and buy feeder cattle so I understand the pros and cons of this bull market. The future looks one heck of lot better than it did in the 80's :)

Boom and bust will always be the ag economy. Grain producers are looking at boom times, but in a year that all gets put into expenses. Rent goes up. Fertilizer. Machinery. Total insanity. Caution is warranted.
 
Ag most certainly goes in cycles. Most markets do. Any Farmer knows that. I'm not going to say that those Tractor makers are going to take charge of the NYSE market. What I am saying is that they will out perform the Market. Take a look at their sales Growth forcast, Income growth forcast, Net profit margin, Dividend yield. Not at all bad looking. This is not rocket science. I've been doing this for a while. I'm a bit perplexed at the negative outlook in this sector. I'm not saying "bet the Farm" on this stock. Diversification is the key to anything. Through the years I've made a lot more money on average increases than on "Home Runs". I'm just trying to help my fellow farmers reap the benifits on the current market dynamics. Enjoy it while it last! :)
 
regenwether":w0rxiqpc said:
Ag most certainly goes in cycles. Most markets do. Any Farmer knows that. I'm not going to say that those Tractor makers are going to take charge of the NYSE market. What I am saying is that they will out perform the Market. Take a look at their sales Growth forcast, Income growth forcast, Net profit margin, Dividend yield. Not at all bad looking. This is not rocket science. I've been doing this for a while. I'm a bit perplexed at the negative outlook in this sector. I'm not saying "bet the Farm" on this stock. Diversification is the key to anything. Through the years I've made a lot more money on average increases than on "Home Runs". I'm just trying to help my fellow farmers reap the benifits on the current market dynamics. Enjoy it while it last! :)
I find this a little confusing. In your first post you were asking for advice on stocks. Now you seem to be giving it. :roll:
 
Well I'm glad I didn't listen to you all. Not to rub it in but I just took some profit on that cnh stock. Sold it for $50 last week. I didn't sell all of my position. Like I said before I think this sector has much upside. Enjoy the ride! :D
 
regenwether":177b34y4 said:
Well I'm glad I didn't listen to you all. Not to rub it in but I just took some profit on that cnh stock. Sold it for $50 last week. I didn't sell all of my position. Like I said before I think this sector has much upside. Enjoy the ride! :D

I have been studying financial markets for about 30 years. There are a lot of similarities in the 1929 market crash and the following depression and now. I believe we will enter into another depression soon, maybe within 10 years. I am no gloom and doom person and at the same time, the charts and numbers I study all point to major problems ahead. When I first noticed what was going on, I purchased 300 acres of land. Hopefully, I can get the land paid off before she hits. Simple natural resources are and will be worth a lot of money. Don't forget to stockpile toilet paper and tooth paste.

Gold is the investment.
 
I think depression is a bit of a stretch. I think we are due for a correction. I don't think a 10% correction would be out of line. I see those situtations as a buying oportunity. I feel a farmer has the gut to handle the ups and downs of the market. As long as you have a long term view of things you should be fine. Diversification and Risk tolerence is important.

I look at a farmer. He buys a heifer....calves it...feeds it...sells the offspring. That takes Patience and Risk tolerence. Until the last few years we have had to survive of a flat market. While all our imput costs have risen. Productivity and Efficiency has been our savior.

I guess my point to all this is if your not...I would suggest you look at investing a bit in the market. If you look at your R.O.I.(return on investment) long term it is comparable to hogs, cattle, grain. :)
 
I think depression is a bit of a stretch.

That is what many people said in 1929. Then when the depression hit there were millions of Americans in the food lines. The people that had debt and could not pay their debts lost everything they had.

I think we are due for a correction.

There is no doubt about that. At the same time, the market could pop another 10% upward. If a market can go down 75% like the Nasdaq and the Nikkei, then the markets can surely go up another 10%.

I don't think a 10% correction would be out of line.

The short term correction you are referring to is long overdue. If you look at a 100 year DJIA chart, how much of a correction do you think we would have then?

I see those situtations as a buying oportunity.

You are a buy on the dips kind of guy which is what the street wants you to do so they can unload. Just remember, you are buying an intangible. If it gets good and cold, the paper may keep you warm for about 5 seconds, if it is thick.

I feel a farmer has the gut to handle the ups and downs of the market.

Streeters will be farmers when the depression hits. They will be using their $1,000 discounted suits to eat.

As long as you have a long term view of things you should be fine. Diversification and Risk tolerence is important.

Sounds to me you have a short term view. I don't like diversification.

I look at a farmer. He buys a heifer....calves it...feeds it...sells the offspring. That takes Patience and Risk tolerence. Until the last few years we have had to survive of a flat market. While all our imput costs have risen. Productivity and Efficiency has been our savior.

When the depression hits, farmers will be heroes and the feds know this. That is why they are willing to loan $200K at low rates to people that don't know know to farm. It doesn't take patience. It takes assets and the feds are willing to let farmers increase their assets in return for not having income.

I guess my point to all this is if your not...I would suggest you look at investing a bit in the market.

Buy at the top? Are you kidding? I am in cash which has been gaining laterly versus other currencies. Makes about 5 points a years plus currency spread / number of days held.

If you look at your R.O.I.(return on investment) long term it is comparable to hogs, cattle, grain. :)

No it isn't. How many companies do you know that issued stock survived longer than 50 years? How about 75 years?
 
Things are looking a bit bad for our economy. To name a few:

Foreign investors are turning away from the dollar.
The housing market is still in the dumps.
The Fed is not likely to lower interest rates soon.
The bond market took a hit today.
Gasoline prices at all time highs.
A high Federal Deficit.
Record high consumer debt.
Low consumer savings.
 
Frankie":34e4oe4t said:
Things are looking a bit bad for our economy. To name a few:

Foreign investors are turning away from the dollar.
The housing market is still in the dumps.
The Fed is not likely to lower interest rates soon.
The bond market took a hit today.
Gasoline prices at all time highs.
A high Federal Deficit.
Record high consumer debt.
Low consumer savings.


Hi Frankie!

Those are some of the obvious bearish indicators yet the market reaches new highs on a recent relative basis. Keep your eye on Gold. In the 30s, the President of the US made it a law for all gold owned by citizens to be confiscated. I plant to bury mine on the land once it is paid off. When and if you buy gold, take delivery of it so no one can short the security to nullify the supply demand equation.
 
Wow! You guys need to relax! :lol: Look you can look at any point of time and find negative things to point out. Ya I think we have our probelms. I never wrote to buy now. I've thought the market has been over priced for some time. That is why I've been taking some profit. In fact I'm in a strong cash position right now.

O.K. please explain to me what is wrong with diversification. I understand in todays Ag it is not easy. In terms of investing in the market why is it not a good idea??

I'm not interested in getting in a shouting match. I have weathered more than a few market downturns. Both farm and nonfarm. I just don't believe in "putting all my eggs in one basket". :D
 
regenwether":28e69rsl said:
Wow! You guys need to relax! :lol: Look you can look at any point of time and find negative things to point out. Ya I think we have our probelms. I never wrote to buy now. I've thought the market has been over priced for some time. That is why I've been taking some profit. In fact I'm in a strong cash position right now.

O.K. please explain to me what is wrong with diversification. I understand in todays Ag it is not easy. In terms of investing in the market why is it not a good idea??

I'm not interested in getting in a shouting match. I have weathered more than a few market downturns. Both farm and nonfarm. I just don't believe in "putting all my eggs in one basket". :D


Let us say I owned one hog, one calf, one cow, one bull, one hen, one rooster, one goat, one mare, one gelding, one phillie, one alligator, one large mouth bass, one crappie, one catfish, one dog, one cat, one grape vine, one corn stalk, one pea plant, one tomato plant, etc....how much money do you think you would make after 100 years?

Instead of the above, if you threw all the money you invested in the above and just bought alligators, your price to manufacture boots may be lower. Oh no....what if the market crashes for gator beef? What if the feds start giving incentives for energy made from gator chops (feed)?

Did you pull the 100 year chart of the DJIA average yet? To show you why diversification is bad, allow me a chance to explain in real time. What did you invest and make on the one long stock transaction you made and how long did you own it? Also, what are your other diversified investments, amounts, and terms.
 
hereford sire..to begin where I have my money and the amount. Don't worry about it! :shock:

Sounds like you have it all figured out...huh?...gold..o.k.

Let me ask you this. What is a reasonable rate of return on your investment? How about on cattle, pigs, grain?? Now index that return with inflation. Ya Ya I know about gold and inflation.

Again...please explain to me what is wrong with diversification? The one chicken,fish ect.. :roll: .. doesn't fly.
 
You are the one that offerered the equity information in the first place. I figured I would genuinely try to help you in real time without charging you a fee. However, we can write about make believe gators and roosters if you want as it doesn't matter to me.


Let me ask you this. What is a reasonable rate of return on your investment? How about on cattle, pigs, grain?? Now index that return with inflation. Ya Ya I know about gold and inflation.

Inflation and the dollar are key. Most people have a different idea of inflation than I do. The feds take a basket of goods and price the goods in regional markets then take an average to calculate the CPI which used to be indexed at 100 in 1967. Besides not including important products or commodities or services, they leave out food and energy. However, inflation to me is when the government prints new money not retiring the outstanding money, thus they increase the money supply. I think of it as a company issuing additional stock, like in a secondary offering, thereby diluting all outstanding shares. With all things being equal, a company will earn less per share when new shares are issued. Therefore, when the governement issues new dollars through new debt instruments, not only do they have to find buyers...they dilute the outstanding dollars. For example, if I have $10K cash saved in a bank since 1980 and it earned an average of 6%, one would normally think the real return may be something like 6% - 3% = 3% after inflation. What they fail to tell us is they also increased the money supply drastically. The $10,000 cash may show a balance of $20,000 but what will $20,000 buy? Very little because of all the new money diluted the older dollars. When the money supply increases, older debt is usually easier to pay back because most of the time the payback occurs with diluted dollars. This is where the trick is...the payback is in diluted dollars.

To answer your question, a reasonable rate of return is a relative term. A group of gators compared to diversified farm animals should bring a reasonable to higher above average return. If you were the only gator farmer in your area your return would most likely go up. If you were to buy out your nearest competitor that owned 10 gators, your return would move up as you either increased volume or moved margins upward.

As you know, cattle, pigs, and grain are commodities. They can usually be shopped which is not good for margins and good for the citizens. The farmers growing these items usually do not make profits but their assets are allowed to skyrocket because of the tax laws. A banker will allow a successful farmer not making money to use assets to buy John Deere machines values at $500K. Put it this way, the normal investment return is gauged upon increases of after tax profit. A farmer shows generally no profit at all. In order to hit these types of returns in the markets, you would obviously would have to hit an occasional 1,000 percent gainer every other year or so.


Again...please explain to me what is wrong with diversification? The one chicken,fish ect.. :roll: .. doesn't fly.

Allow me to put this is make believe land for you. I have $100K I need to invest, and for this example, let us say equities. I place $10K each in 10 equities. Now I am diversified in equities. If one company goes bankrupt like Enron, I still have $90K plus appreciation or depreciation in the 9 remaining equities. Also, if one sector of the economy goes down 20% and the other sectors of the economy move up or are stable, I don't lose my shirt and it softens the blow. Over time, I am supposed to make about 11% per year before inflation and before the dollar dilution after the feds printing new money, and before taxes, and before currency derivatives are calculated, you get the idea. Do you see a pattern? We think we are making 11% but what are we really making?

You have to move large amounts of cash, relatively speaking, in and out of winning investments at the right time to compensate for all the new dollar dilution and the other above items I previously mentioned. Or...if you are a farmer, move into land and not show a profit and hide your assets on the books. It is much easier to move $100K (usually a larger investment) in one equity position, monitory the equity after flying out to the company, inspecting all the company literature, etc. You can spend all your brain cells on one position and make a return to pay for the dollar dilutions. If you are diversified, can you afford to fly to a company to check out their operation? Usually not.
 
Gate Opener":3lo0pxzw said:
If they are really high, I wouldn't get in now unless it is almost certain they will keep going up. Look them up on the internet on sights like Money.com or kiplingers. Read up on what is going on in those companies. Also see if there is some sort of pattern to the prices. Ex: Some stocks go up in the summer then down in the winter. IMO buy when they are low and sell when high. ;-) :nod:

Some of the worst advice we have received came from a stock broker. I don't know for sure but I personally think they get kickbacks when they get you to buy certain stocks.

Stock trades are classified as having risk and no risk such as through a broker's market maker or as an agency trade. When purchased through a market maker, the market maker assumes risk usually for a short period of time but sometimes they can place the position in inventory. In an agency trade, no risk by the trader is taken. When a trade is executed through a market maker, the market maker (broker's trading arm...must be registered with the SEC as making a market in the security) can make the difference between the bid and ask in addition to a commission. In an agency trade, the firm fills the order by going to market and only makes the commission while the market maker at the market makes the spread.
 
regenwether":1m7vw812 said:
I'm in Corn country. Let me tell you we are seeing $4.00 corn. A producer can lock in some very good profit three years out. When Farmers make more money they spend more. I'd rather buy myself a new truck or farm equipment than pay uncle sam taxes. This ethonal production is real. I'm not saying it is the answer but it is a start in the right direction. From what I can see it is all positive. In closing I'll make this comment that is somewhat revelent: Remember the Gold rush of the 1800"s Who got rich? the Miners....no....it was the person who sold the shovel to the Miners!! :)

Gold rush? Hmmmmmm. Interesting topic. Corn is gold! I am glad you brought this topic up. The people selling the shovels did not get rich as the few that struck the gold veins. Most people either died or squandered their finds and went back to were they came. The gold found by the 49ers is still in circulation but the companies that existed there then are surely not, especially the publicly traded ones.

Although the conventional wisdom is that merchants made more money than miners during the Gold Rush, the reality is perhaps more complex. There were certainly merchants who profited handsomely. The wealthiest man in California during the early years of the Gold Rush was Samuel Brannan, the tireless self-promoter, shopkeeper and newspaper publisher.[65] Brannan alertly opened the first supply stores in Sacramento, Coloma, and other spots in the gold fields. Just as the Gold Rush began, he purchased all the prospecting supplies available in San Francisco and re-sold them at a substantial profit.[65] However, substantial money was made by gold-seekers as well. For example, within a few months, one small group of prospectors, working on the Feather River in 1848, retrieved a sum of gold worth more than $1.5 million by 2006 prices.[66]

On average, many early gold-seekers did perhaps make a modest profit, after all expenses were taken into account. Most, however, especially those arriving later, made little or wound up losing money.[67][68] Similarly, many unlucky merchants set up in settlements that disappeared, or were wiped out in one of the calamitous fires that swept the towns springing up.[69] Other businessmen, through good fortune and hard work, reaped great rewards in retail, shipping, entertainment, lodging,[70] or transportation.[71]

By 1855, the economic climate had changed dramatically. Gold could be retrieved profitably from the goldfields only by medium to large groups of workers, either in partnerships or as employees.[72] By the mid-1850s, it was the owners of these gold-mining companies who made the money. Similarly, the population of California had grown so large and so fast, and the economic base had started to diversify enough, that money could be made in a wide variety of conventional businesses.[73]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Gold_Rush
 
regenwether":2ihscytk said:
Well I'm glad I didn't listen to you all. Not to rub it in but I just took some profit on that cnh stock. Sold it for $50 last week. I didn't sell all of my position. Like I said before I think this sector has much upside. Enjoy the ride! :D
Congratulations on your profits. You sure know what you are doing, or at least think you do. Not like us dumb cowboys.

I believe I said CNH looked techanically weak. I offerd my opinion on the way it looked to me. I thought that was what you wanted. But you knew better than me . However, it did go down a bit and entered a consolidation from March 27 until April 17. When one goes technically weak, I never know if it is a false signal, a temprary consolidation, or if the bottom is going to fall out.
Novice players go full steam ahead on optimistic hope. Mature traders know to keep a defensive mindset.

I closed out DE June 6 and am happy with my profit. But I know I am not always right, thus I try to be defensive.

CNH is giving off a strong signal right now as to it's future direction. I'm sure you are on top of that one.

i'm sorry I tried to respond to your original question. Iwill try not to make that mistake again.
 
Good thread! Great response! Herefordsire we don't agree in this area. I respect your opinion. In the area of stocks...the thing is i love it! I enjoy the research, watching it grow (or go down). I wouldn't suggest anyone to put a large share of their net worth in the stock market. For the average investor they
might do better than lets say a C.D.
In the area of gold. What do you recommend?
 

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