Steer. Has Feb butcher date.

[JHH]

Thoughts on this guy. He is 20 months old in these pics

 

[bigbull338]

thats a goodlooking steer.what an how much are you feeding him.he looks tobe at the 1000lb mark or higher.

 

[Roan]

Depends on how you like them finished, he could go now or I would put another 100-150-# on him. We usually finish ours out at 15-16 months with grain.

 

[Kingfisher]

Thoughts on this guy. He is 20 months old in these pics

What have you been feeding him?

 

[plumber_greg]

For myself, I like the brisket a little fuller. gs

 

[JHH]

I dont have a current pic of him. That pic was taken in Nov around Thanksgiving.

He has been of corn and oats. He gets minerals and hay free choice also.He looks ok I will try and get a pic of him now.

 

[Aaron]

I like butcher steers like that. Little waste. You might as well quit feeding oats. It's not going to benefit him to any appreciable degree at this point in his life. He has the muscle and the frame, and just needs some fat. If these are November pics, I would say he has probably been ready to go for a while.

 

[chippie]

Oats work for horses because they grind their feed with their teeth. Cattle just poop them through. They will do the same with whole corn.

We finish with a co-op beef builder mix and butcher at 15 months. I don't have the patience to wait 2 years until I can get one processed.

 

[JHH]

I like butcher steers like that. Little waste. You might as well quit feeding oats. It's not going to benefit him to any appreciable degree at this point in his life. He has the muscle and the frame, and just needs some fat. If these are November pics, I would say he has probably been ready to go for a while.

Yes he has been ready but could not get him in because of deer season.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The Nov pics show a little fat building around tail head, little fat in flank, but can't see any on brisket. He should be in great shape by harvest time. He'll be about 23 months - lot older than we like.
Chippie - you might do a little research in feeding whole shell corn (and most likely the same for oats, although I also wouldn't recommend trying to feed oats in a finishing ration). They used to say cracked corn was 8% more efficient than whole corn - but the most recent research I read, compared whole, cracked, flaked, crimped - and they were ALL equally palatable and efficient. Hard to believe FLAKED corn wasn't better - sure costs a LOT MORE!
Anyway, whole shell corn is HEALTHIER because you don't have to worry about finely ground feed, and even if the OLD info is the most accurate - you usually gobble up the price difference in processing.
I ALWAYS recommend whole shell corn. We even use it for our show cattle & replacement heifers.
Saves $$$$$ and works just as well.

 

[KNERSIE]

The Nov pics show a little fat building around tail head, little fat in flank, but can't see any on brisket. He should be in great shape by harvest time. He'll be about 23 months - lot older than we like.
Chippie - you might do a little research in feeding whole shell corn (and most likely the same for oats, although I also wouldn't recommend trying to feed oats in a finishing ration). They used to say cracked corn was 8% more efficient than whole corn - but the most recent research I read, compared whole, cracked, flaked, crimped - and they were ALL equally palatable and efficient. Hard to believe FLAKED corn wasn't better - sure costs a LOT MORE!
Anyway, whole shell corn is HEALTHIER because you don't have to worry about finely ground feed, and even if the OLD info is the most accurate - you usually gobble up the price difference in processing.
I ALWAYS recommend whole shell corn. We even use it for our show cattle & replacement heifers.
Saves $$$$$ and works just as well.

Same goes for whole oats. I am sure rolled oats or corn is slightly better than whole, but I prefer whole over ground grain any day.

The recommendation is though to feed whole grain from a young age to get the animals accustomed to chewing the whole grain. How much of that is BS written to aquire a PhD, I honestly can't tell.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I've read several different articles, and they did not refer to any age group. I know calves LIKE to CHEW feed.
It's a win - win ---- cheaper & healtier. I LIKE CHEAP :banana:

 

[JHH]

(and most likely the same for oats, although I also wouldn't recommend trying to feed oats in a finishing ration).

Why no oats for finishing?

 

[TexasBred]

I've read several different articles, and they did not refer to any age group. I know calves LIKE to CHEW feed.
It's a win - win ---- cheaper & healtier. I LIKE CHEAP :banana:

Calves are much more efficient at utilizing whole corn than grown cattle. Whether it's corn, cottonseed or what ever, if the other skin is not broken the cow gets nothing out of it and it will pass thru the cow, germinate and sprout.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I've read several different articles, and they did not refer to any age group. I know calves LIKE to CHEW feed.
It's a win - win ---- cheaper & healtier. I LIKE CHEAP :banana:

Calves are much more efficient at utilizing whole corn than grown cattle. Whether it's corn, cottonseed or what ever, if the other skin is not broken the cow gets nothing out of it and it will pass thru the cow, germinate and sprout.

You are correct. You will see the whole corn in their manure. But, they have utilized all the nutritional value out of it. If you were able to "screen" manure from an animal fed cracked corn, you would also find most all the corn in the manure. This has been proven over and over. Lot of research was for milking dairy cows, because and 8% difference in efficiency is HUGE in a dairy cow. The processing fee was insignificant to a dairyman.

 

[TexasBred]

I've read several different articles, and they did not refer to any age group. I know calves LIKE to CHEW feed.
It's a win - win ---- cheaper & healtier. I LIKE CHEAP :banana:

Calves are much more efficient at utilizing whole corn than grown cattle. Whether it's corn, cottonseed or what ever, if the other skin is not broken the cow gets nothing out of it and it will pass thru the cow, germinate and sprout.

You are correct. You will see the whole corn in their manure. But, they have utilized all the nutritional value out of it. If you were able to "screen" manure from an animal fed cracked corn, you would also find most all the corn in the manure. This has been proven over and over. Lot of research was for milking dairy cows, because and 8% difference in efficiency is HUGE in a dairy cow. The processing fee was insignificant to a dairyman.

Jeanne....you're wrong on this one..."The nutrients in "WHOLE CORN" have been utilized ONLY if the outer skin has been sufficiently cracked and allowed the digestive juices to utilize it. It cannnot and will not germinate IF it has been otherwise changed.....it is exactly as it went in. Cracked corn and fine ground corn on the other hand....you are exactly right....it only has the appearance of corn. The nutrients have been utilized...If you screen that manure you'll also find the "outward appearance" of all the other ingredients in the feed ration.... bean meal, wheat midds, and anything else that was in it to begin with.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Jeanne....you're wrong on this one..."The nutrients in "WHOLE CORN" have been utilized ONLY if the outer skin has been sufficiently cracked and allowed the digestive juices to utilize it. It cannnot and will not germinate IF it has been otherwise changed.....it is exactly as it went in. Cracked corn and fine ground corn on the other hand....you are exactly right....it only has the appearance of corn. The nutrients have been utilized...If you screen that manure you'll also find the "outward appearance" of all the other ingredients in the feed ration.... bean meal, wheat midds, and anything else that was in it to begin with.

If you are correct TB then JS's statement about the 8% dif is hogwash as well. Come on, lets "hammer" this out because I mill my corn.
At 8 % my mill has paid for itself, at 0% it has been healthy exercise and good for the hydro folks.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

What you say totally makes sense, but --- all the research I have read for the past 30+ years disagrees with that theory. Here's an article - doesn't totally agree with what I have learned, but --
http://www.hpj.com/archives/2008/jan08/ ... ntomyr.cfm
Can I feed whole shell corn to my ruminants?
By Michael Fisher

CSU Area Livestock Extension Agent, Golden Plains Area

Colorado

"Whole shell corn can be fed as an unprocessed product. In fact, there are some researchers who believe that when cattle are on extremely high concentrate diets (less than 20 percent roughage) the whole shell corn diet can have slight advantages over cracked corn. One obvious advantage is that we can save the cost of processing when we feed corn as a whole kernel. Another advantage is that whole shell corn can be utilized as "scratch factor," which is usually associated with roughages. The rumen is lined with thousands of small, finger-like, structures called papillae. The papillae absorb volatile fatty acids that are given off as byproduct when the rumen's microbial population breaks down the feedstuffs that the animal consumes. These VFA's are essential to the ruminant animal's nutrition and survival. The papillae require some kind of scratching action to grow and remain healthy. Theoretically, the better the scratch, the better the VFA's are absorbed, and the better the animal's performance.

As ruminants chew corn, they will break open the bran of some of the kernels and swallow others whole. Some of the kernels will receive further breakage when the animal chews its cud. However, many of the kernels will remain a whole kernel. This creates a harder job for the microbial population. They have to get through the bran to enter the kernel and digest the starch from inside. By having lots of unbroken kernels in the rumen, digestion and utilization is slowed. While this may lessen the chance of acidosis, bloat, or liver abscesses; it may also lessen performance and will reduce both dry matter intake and feed conversions. This problem can be amplified when animals are hungry or there is a lot of competition for space at the feed bunk. These hungrier and more competitive animals are prone to gulping the shell corn without chewing much of it.

Many producers who have fed whole shell corn have complained of the number of whole kernels that are excreted in the manure. Canadian researchers examined this and determined that 11 percent of the kernels that appeared to be whole in the feces were actually hollow. It would seem that the microbial population was able to find entry through the bran layer and digest the internal starch of the corn. Another research study in Ohio ascertained the number of corn kernels that were fed to cattle and compared this to the number excreted. Further analysis determined how many excreted kernels were hollow versus starch filled. These researchers determined that 88 percent of the whole shell corn that was fed was utilized by the animal.

 

[chippie]

What you say totally makes sense, but --- all the research I have read for the past 30+ years disagrees with that theory. Here's an article - doesn't totally agree with what I have learned, but --
http://www.hpj.com/archives/2008/jan08/ ... ntomyr.cfm
Can I feed whole shell corn to my ruminants?
By Michael Fisher

CSU Area Livestock Extension Agent, Golden Plains Area

Colorado

"Whole shell corn can be fed as an unprocessed product. In fact, there are some researchers who believe that when cattle are on extremely high concentrate diets (less than 20 percent roughage) the whole shell corn diet can have slight advantages over cracked corn. One obvious advantage is that we can save the cost of processing when we feed corn as a whole kernel. Another advantage is that whole shell corn can be utilized as "scratch factor," which is usually associated with roughages. The rumen is lined with thousands of small, finger-like, structures called papillae. The papillae absorb volatile fatty acids that are given off as byproduct when the rumen's microbial population breaks down the feedstuffs that the animal consumes. These VFA's are essential to the ruminant animal's nutrition and survival. The papillae require some kind of scratching action to grow and remain healthy. Theoretically, the better the scratch, the better the VFA's are absorbed, and the better the animal's performance.

As ruminants chew corn, they will break open the bran of some of the kernels and swallow others whole. Some of the kernels will receive further breakage when the animal chews its cud. However, many of the kernels will remain a whole kernel. This creates a harder job for the microbial population. They have to get through the bran to enter the kernel and digest the starch from inside. By having lots of unbroken kernels in the rumen, digestion and utilization is slowed. While this may lessen the chance of acidosis, bloat, or liver abscesses; it may also lessen performance and will reduce both dry matter intake and feed conversions. This problem can be amplified when animals are hungry or there is a lot of competition for space at the feed bunk. These hungrier and more competitive animals are prone to gulping the shell corn without chewing much of it.

Many producers who have fed whole shell corn have complained of the number of whole kernels that are excreted in the manure. Canadian researchers examined this and determined that 11 percent of the kernels that appeared to be whole in the feces were actually hollow. It would seem that the microbial population was able to find entry through the bran layer and digest the internal starch of the corn. Another research study in Ohio ascertained the number of corn kernels that were fed to cattle and compared this to the number excreted. Further analysis determined how many excreted kernels were hollow versus starch filled. These researchers determined that 88 percent of the whole shell corn that was fed was utilized by the animal.

You did not include other pertinent information in the article.

Also, extremely dry or "flinty" corn requires some attention before feeding. Whole shell corn works best at 13 to 15 percent moisture. When it is at 12 percent moisture or less you should consider either processing or moistening it. By adding 3 to 5 percent water to the corn, while mixing it, we can help to increase the moisture level. Some producers will use a mixture of water and surfactant. The surfactant dissolves the outer, wax-like layer of the grain, allowing it to absorb moisture.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That's why I put the link.
As I said, I did not agree totally with this article. This was one man's opionion - I have read many different "research" results.
Bottom line, whole shell corn is a good feed. The Ohio research claimed 12% less efficient - I was always told 8%. I'll see if I can come up with other research.
My husband was a feed nutritionist in Kansas & out here for a good number of years. He dealt with this all the time. We have finished many steers & advised many 4-H'ers over the past 40 years. We only feed DRY whole shell corn with protein pellets to our show string & our replacement heifers. Works great - you can't win at shows if the feed program isn't correct. We used to formulate (hubby did) a fancy grain feed for the showstring. Cutting costs, we started feeding wsc - no difference in growth, hair coat, condition, etc - just $$$$. We never pushed our showstring or replacements, so the health benefit was negligble for us.