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W.B.

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I don’t mean to be an arse but am I the only one concerned about mass treating with high powered antibiotics? I think prevention is a better Avenue. I know environment plays a huge role in this but immune system response is tied heavily towards nutrition.
 
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gcreekrch

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I don’t mean to be an arse but am I the only one concerned about mass treating with high powered antibiotics? I think prevention is a better Avenue. I know environment plays a huge role in this but immune system response is tied heavily towards nutrition.
I would rather live calves to sell than deal with ideals and opinions. We all do what works for our own operation. Looking like we will be branding a 97% plus calf crop for cows wintered. My neighbours aren’t.........
 

Stocker Steve

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Inforce 3 and Calf Guard for new borns if the weather is bad. Otherwise nothing.

Nothing at weaning. Had a calf from the same cow get sick for two years running, but a trailer fixed that.

Have mass medicated light calves at receiving. Only time this seems necessary.

Tried Inforce 3 as a booster before stocker turnout. Seems like over kill.
 
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gcreekrch

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Inforce 3 and Calf Guard for new borns if the weather is bad. Otherwise nothing.

Nothing at weaning. Had a calf from the same cow get sick for two years running, but a trailer fixed that.

Have mass medicated light calves at receiving. Only time this seems necessary.

Tried Inforce 3 as a booster before stocker turnout. Seems like over kill.
No clostridials or BRD vaccinations in the calves you are selling?
 

SBMF 2015

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Turn out: Inforce3, One Shot IN, BoviShield Gold, Alpha7 MPB, Moxarella Bovoculi, cut the bulls, Cydecton injectable and Revlor G (strs and cross bred hfrs).

Month after weaning: Pyramid 5, Once PHM, Somnu Shield, Encore implant (Strs only), Synanthic wormer.

Those little calves get a lot, but I rarely treat unweaned calves.
 

Buck Randall

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I would rather live calves to sell than deal with ideals and opinions. We all do what works for our own operation. Looking like we will be branding a 97% plus calf crop for cows wintered. My neighbours aren’t.........
Outside of ideals and opinions, there are consequences to mass treatment every year. Antibiotic resistance is inevitable, and you will eventually get to a point where Draxxin doesn't work at all. I've seen this happen on a few farms. You can then rotate in a different antibiotic, but you eventually run out of options.
 

W.B.

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My concern is resistance. Why not do a better job on prevention? Correcting Copper and Zinc deficiencies will do more good than all the vaccine and antibiotics you can buy and is a far more economical. I have visited with producers that are seeing resistance To the high powered antibiotics.

I don’t sell mineral or nutritional advise but see a problem here. Before we fed chelated Cu and Zn we had serious health problems now we do Not. Most of the baby calve problems are started long before the calf hits the ground and if they are sick as babies they likely have health issues after they are weaned. Our 1 to 2 month old calves get a 7 way and a 5 way viral and rarely have a sick calf from vaccination to weaning. This is on several hundred head. Like I said, I have lived the situation in real life and this is my experience.
 

Ky hills

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I would rather live calves to sell than deal with ideals and opinions. We all do what works for our own operation. Looking like we will be branding a 97% plus calf crop for cows wintered. My neighbours aren’t.........
When I was buying stocker calves, it was a common practice to give them Draxxin, when working them at first. It was one of those things where you have a large investment in the calves and if they get sick it sets them back individually and can spread through the group and if there are losses that really eats into the already narrow profit margin.
 

W.B.

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I would be less concerned with resistance in the stocker operation vs cow calf but if we have resistance in the cow calf side we have resistance in the stocker operation.
 
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gcreekrch

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My concern is resistance. Why not do a better job on prevention? Correcting Copper and Zinc deficiencies will do more good than all the vaccine and antibiotics you can buy and is a far more economical. I have visited with producers that are seeing resistance To the high powered antibiotics.

I don’t sell mineral or nutritional advise but see a problem here. Before we fed chelated Cu and Zn we had serious health problems now we do Not. Most of the baby calve problems are started long before the calf hits the ground and if they are sick as babies they likely have health issues after they are weaned. Our 1 to 2 month old calves get a 7 way and a 5 way viral and rarely have a sick calf from vaccination to weaning. This is on several hundred head. Like I said, I have lived the situation in real life and this is my experience.
We feed a mineral that was built for our ranch and took ten years to perfect. It contains a near toxic level of copper to offset the molybdenum.
I would much rather not be using an expensive antibiotic but experience has proven this is the best and most cost effective protocol to use.
 

W.B.

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What is the source of copper and zinc in your mineral? Have you ever biopsied any livers of your cattle? Again I am not a nutritionist but am very curious.
 

Stocker Steve

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I would rather live calves to sell than deal with ideals and opinions. We all do what works for our own operation. Looking like we will be branding a 97% plus calf crop for cows wintered. My neighbours aren’t.........
We wean 95 to 98% w/o many meds. Keys are using a trailer and avoiding calving in bad weather.
 

TCRanch

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How can you possibly predict "good" weather 9 months in advance? I moved calving back from late Jan/early Feb to first week of March. And yet, there's always one that plops out a calf waaaay earlier than anticipated. And the unusual amounts of rain we've had the past few years? And the epic cold/ice/snow/hell that spanked half the country this year? Calving and weaning in mud is, IMO, worse than the cold. And, of course, calving later means weaning later - right when we're getting into questionable late fall/winter weather (because mine are weaned a minimum of 45 days). And that segues into selling them the absolute end of the year or having to hold them over, which can also affect our taxes, contingent on when we need to declare the income. Moving calving back further in the Spring in hopes of "good" weather also means turning out the bulls later. Can't speak for other bulls, but mine sure aren't at the top of their game when the heat index is 100, which then segues into a longer calving season (as opposed to my 6 week goal). I envy you that have spot-on, predictable weather.

You do what works best for your operation. And be as proactive as possible. And work closely with your vet. And always be prepared for Plan B.

Jumping down off my soapbox . . . . I've thought a lot about hitting my calves with Draxxin at weaning, but wondering if it's six of one, half dozen of the other. Calves have 3 rounds of respiratory, which should be more than sufficient. Is it $$$$ well spent? Would I come out even if I treated on a case-by-case basis? Because not all calves get sick. Or is this the year I'm back to zero respiratory issues and all good? I dunno.
 

Ky hills

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@TCRanch your reasoning for calving earlier are our thoughts on it too. I swore during the winter I wouldn't put the bulls out till June, but they are already out there. In a perfect world, April would be a good time to calve, but late June and July aren't always good months for the bulls to be at their best. We have had fly issues with later born calves. The calves born in the winter have to be watched close, and there are losses at times, but those early calves just seem to do better and the timing is better to market them, because they are are a little older and heavier, and also they can be marketed before the fall runs come in and prices drop.
On the subject of Draxxin, we used to give it to newly purchased stockers as part of the regimen, then as I started going towards heifers to sell as breds, and thus not running as many, I didn't always have them give Draxxin. Asked a vet about it once and he said basically what you did, that it was about even as to treating them at that time or as needed. The vet that does most of our vet work now, doesn't recommend giving antibiotics and vaccinations at the same time.
 
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gcreekrch

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We wean 95 to 98% w/o many meds. Keys are using a trailer and avoiding calving in bad weather.
We can avoid the bad weather and have grizzlies and wolves help calve on range. Have to take the lesser of two evils.

As far as treating calves for scours and respiratory, I haven’t reached the 5% mark yet this season. The respiratory usually comes about time we are branding and for the next month. Hence, our protocol.
 

Lee VanRoss

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TCRanch> On average the weather will be better as the sun approaces Mar 21. One can only shoot for a better
average temperature. Is there a reason other than tradition for you selling calves in the fall? Selling calves in the fall results in your cows only working 7 or 8 and at most 9 months out of the year. A cow is an asset, yes, but next to
yourself should be the hardest working employee you have. What other employee in your operation is getting
paid (eating) for 12 months and producing 8 months? As to accounting and marketing schedules that may be
subjects for you to visit in conjuction with a review of the calving schedule. Just try not to see yourself boxed
into the status quo. Good Luck
 
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gcreekrch

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There are other reasons we calve when we do besides ultimate timing for best weather at calving. Number one is our grass is at its best during July.
We go to 30,000 acres of open range in May 25 and we don’t have the manpower to watch cattle scattered over hundreds of swamp meadows and Jack pine forests. As mentioned the predators would soon learn of the easy pickings and be worse than they are.
Not prepared to build more fence on crown land at my expense either.

So, we do what works best for us amongst the rest of the management for this ranch and deal with the things we have to deal with.

On the bright side, we don’t have snakes, alligators, ticks, poisonous spiders, alligators, tornados, hurricanes or close neighbours.

Life is good!
 
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