Soil Test Results, Now what?

[East Caney]

I just got my soil test results back. Here are the recommendations:

95 lbs N, 95 lbs P, 95 lbs K, 1 ton 100ECCE Lime/ac (pH 5.3).

I was advised that K in excess of 75 lbs should be split into two applications. From my reading on the net, it seems it would be good to get the P in the soil now.

I called the local COOP and they suggested I put half the N, all the P, and half the K out now. Then they said put the other half of the N and K out when it warms up.

Now keep in mind I've never had to do this myself, but here my thinking:

I hear and read all the time how N magically disappears if it doesn't get rained in. I also realize that N is the major player and getting growth from the grass (coastal bermuda BTW). Could I put out 20 lbs N, all the P, and 1/2 the K? I don't want to put out 1/2 the N and it be gone or taken up by winter weeds before the bermuda starts to grow. All advice is appreciated.

Also, they suggested 100 lbs N after each cutting for an addtional cutting. I'm trying for 2 tons/ac per cutting. Why don't I have to put out more P and K if the ratio used by coastal is 4-1-2 or 4-1-3?

I know this is really long, so thanks for reading and replying.

 

[Herefordcross]

Something doesn't add up to me, that's a lot of Nitrogen?? But, your in a different part of the country than me so maybe it is just different where you are.

 

[jw]

I would think you would be wise to follow the instructions from the guys at the coop. They have been in the area and should know what the conditions require. It may not be what you think, but they are in the business.

 

[East Caney]

The only thing that I have any problem with is his suggested N output. Does nitrogen react differently in different areas?

Studying has led me to believe that N is best utilized by bermuda when soil temperatures exceed 50 degrees and the night temp stays above 60 degrees for 1 to 2 weeks consistently.

Before that, my understanding is that winter weeds or less favorable grasses may utilize the N, depleting the amount in the soil. Also, there's the fact that N doesn't remain in the soil, so it seems that putting N out this early (in such great supply) would lead to more N loss before the bermuda greens up.

Lastly, all my studying has shown that it takes 50lbs N to produce 1 ton of bermuda forage. I've been doing a LOT of reading trying not to get this wrong. I'm completely open, but I want to make sure that his suggestion is the most efficient. I've noticed that a lot of people do things one way and refuse to change because that's the way "it's always been done." So, any additional suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[dun]

I tend to do things somewhat backasswards, but the first thing I would do is get the lime down. At the beginning of spring greenup I'ld put down half the fertilizer. At a later date I'ld do another soil test before putting down the other half. As the soil sweetens from the increase of ph, the fertilzer requirements will frequently change as more of it is made available in the soil. The ph will keep increasing for the next several years as the lime takes effect.
Jusat another way of looking at the situation

dun

 

[BC]

Your on the right track. Get the lime out ASAP. It will need a little while to start to sweeten up the soil. I would follow the Co-op's recommendation on amounts, but wait until April for first application. I would apply the other half of N the first of May and be ready to cut in 3 to 4 weeks. For each cutting thereafter I would use nitrogn and potash in equal amounts. Some work done at Stephen F. Austin State University shows that 80 lbs of potash every cutting got the most production. Some work done over in North Louisiana at the Homer Research Station suggested using a 4-1-5 ratio.

 

[novatech]

After you do all this and cut your first hay you should do another soil test. That hay you take off will take out more than N. After this you will be able to estimate the amount to used for the rest of the season. Do another test next spring. Soil tests are cheap compared to wasteing fert.

 

[Dave]

What you posted is someone's recommendations not the test results. But their recommendations don't add up without even seeing the results. Grass uses somewhere between 4 to 8 pounds of P per ton of yield. So at 95 pounds of P you are putting on enough for a 12 to 24 tons crop. Grass also uses between 30 to 60 pounds of N per ton. So a 95 pounds of N you are applying enough for a 1.5 to 3 ton crop.
With a pH of 5.3 you need lime. But you can certainly use more than one ton. With a 5.3, one ton is almost like spitting in the ocean.

 

[novatech]

What you posted is someone's recommendations not the test results. But their recommendations don't add up without even seeing the results. Grass uses somewhere between 4 to 8 pounds of P per ton of yield. So at 95 pounds of P you are putting on enough for a 12 to 24 tons crop. Grass also uses between 30 to 60 pounds of N per ton. So a 95 pounds of N you are applying enough for a 1.5 to 3 ton crop.
With a pH of 5.3 you need lime. But you can certainly use more than one ton. With a 5.3, one ton is almost like spitting in the ocean.

We use 100 lbs. N and more as normal practice, depending on test results. May be different in your area, I don,t have a clue why. I just do what thwe test results tells me. It has worked for me.

 

[Angus Guy]

Everything about this rec seems off to me. I would need to see the test results know for sure. On the lime I would certainly look at about 3t/a. You need a ph over 6.3 for good grass and hay. I may be wrong since you're in a different area than me but it just looks srewy. By the way I am if the fert business.

 

[East Caney]

Results:

pH 5.3 (CL* - Critical level) 5.8 - Moderate acidity
N 2 (almost non-existent in the soil)
Phosphorus 11 (CL 50)
Potassium 91 (CL 150)
Calcium 457 (CL 180)
Magnesium 188 (CL 50)
Sulfur 20 (CL 13)

On the line graph, Phosphorus is in the low/very low range. Potassium is in the moderate range.

 

[Angus Guy]

The first thing I would do is to start improveing the ph. My rec. is to apply 2t/a this spring and then 1.5t/a this fall. I would also make sure that the lime is low in Mg as your levels are pretty high. Next I would apply a 27-69-120 custom blend this spring. I don't have the removal rates for your hay and the expected tonnage but you should be able to get them from the Extention office or your local fert dealer. The DAP and Potash in this blend should give maintence and some build up I would think. This fall or late summer I would apply this same blend again unless your removals are more and then you might have to adjust the blend accordingly. The N is one I'm alittle gray on as I don't know the requirements for the type of grasses you are growing. I know that on my fescue and brome pastures 50# of N does a good job. To fill the N requirement I would use Ammonium Nitrate As the N source. Your local people can tell you whether a split shot or a single application is best for your area. If this rec is to cashy I would apply the lime and N as they will give the most short term bang for your buck. I hope this helps in some small way.

 

[Dave]

I did some quick figuring. A recommendation of 95-95-95 works out to 500 pound per acre of 19-19-19. Does whoever made the recommendation happen to have a warehouse full of triple 19?
Nitrate nitrogen (NO2) will almost always be non-existent in the soil this time of the year. The exception to that is if you are in an arid area. So you always need to apply N based on yield goals minus breakdown of organinc matter in the soil. Ballpark organic matter will give you 20 pounds of N annually for every percentage point of organic matter in the soil (5% soil organic matter gives you 100 pound of N).
The P in the test results are low. But the combination of adding 95 pounds and liming will raise it to a level that you shouldn't have to apply P again for a few years. Just raising the pH will free up P that is not plant available in your soil now.
The potassium is the one that I would agree with. Maybe a hair high but potassium stays put in the soil so adding a little extra isn't going to hurt you.
I don't know what your projected yields are but I would say that this recommmendation is low on N, high on P, and about right on K. I would be most concern with adding N and raising your pH. I think you will see the most bang for you buck with those.

Dave

 

[East Caney]

The goal for yield productions is 2 tons/acre. I don't know if I mentioned previously, but the recommendation was to apply an additional 100 lbs of nitrogen for each additional cutting.

With the lime, will I be able to see an increase in yield (in 2007) if I apply it now?

Angus Guy, I think your lime suggestions are a bit high. I called the soil testing lab, and they suggested that the 1 ton recommended would raise the pH of the soil near 1 point (just above six). Of course, this is based on 100ecce lime. I will have to put out a bit more as the coop here only has 75ecce lime readily available.

Dave, the coop has 17-17-17, but stated that I needed a custom blend. The soil testing lab did state that I needed to split the K into two applications. However, since the coop is suggesting 1/2 the N be put out now anyway, I guess I could put out about 300lbs/ac Triple 17 and follow up with a second application of about 200-300 lbs/ac.

There's some green grass underneath the bermuda. It's hardly growing. I don't know if it's rye or not. If it is, would the Fertilizer boost it's growth and make a better yielding first cut?

 

[alftn]

Listen to Dun, put the lime down, I think 2 tons to ac. to start. No N untill grass start to green up. Always take it easy on the N... The P and K will be around longer the N washes away.....

 

[BC]

I did some quick figuring. A recommendation of 95-95-95 works out to 500 pound per acre of 19-19-19. Does whoever made the recommendation happen to have a warehouse full of triple 19?
Nitrate nitrogen (NO2) will almost always be non-existent in the soil this time of the year. The exception to that is if you are in an arid area. So you always need to apply N based on yield goals minus breakdown of organinc matter in the soil. Ballpark organic matter will give you 20 pounds of N annually for every percentage point of organic matter in the soil (5% soil organic matter gives you 100 pound of N).
The P in the test results are low. But the combination of adding 95 pounds and liming will raise it to a level that you shouldn't have to apply P again for a few years. Just raising the pH will free up P that is not plant available in your soil now.
The potassium is the one that I would agree with. Maybe a hair high but potassium stays put in the soil so adding a little extra isn't going to hurt you.
I don't know what your projected yields are but I would say that this recommmendation is low on N, high on P, and about right on K. I would be most concern with adding N and raising your pH. I think you will see the most bang for you buck with those.

Dave

I bet he is on a deep sand and trying to grow bermuda grass. Some of our East Texas soils are pretty low in inheritent fertility and organic matter. Hay meadows need lime every year or every other year if they are cut multiple times. Bermuda grass is a high user of potash. You will get more production out of it by applying some to every cutting, otherwise it will take it up in the first cutting.

 

[Diehard40]

First thing you should do if you don't understand the results of the soil test that you get back is to contact your local County Extension Agent. I would reccomend this for all areas of the country.

 

[Dave]

If this is a sandy soil low in organic matter you will definately be low on N. Applying N to sandy soil it is a good idea to split applications and apply enough to grow each cutting. N moves pretty easy and you can lose it.
You almost never hear of split applications of K because it is good about staying where you put it until the plants use it. However, as low as your soil is in Ca and Mg the grass might want to luxury consume the K. Grass has a hard time telling the difference between K, Ca, and Mg. If one is in short supply the plants will just take up more of the other. Low Ca and Mg with a high K in the soil is a recipe for grass tetany. Liming to raise the pH will help this as it puts more Ca and Mg in the soil. For now a split application of K certainly wont hurt anything.
There is no use in getting a special blend to get a 95-95-95 rate. You can use the triple 17 that is available. 558 pounds per acre of triple 17 equals 95-95-95.
Dave

 

[somn]

If this is a sandy soil low in organic matter you will definately be low on N. Applying N to sandy soil it is a good idea to split applications and apply enough to grow each cutting. N moves pretty easy and you can lose it.
You almost never hear of split applications of K because it is good about staying where you put it until the plants use it. However, as low as your soil is in Ca and Mg the grass might want to luxury consume the K. Grass has a hard time telling the difference between K, Ca, and Mg. If one is in short supply the plants will just take up more of the other. Low Ca and Mg with a high K in the soil is a recipe for grass tetany. Liming to raise the pH will help this as it puts more Ca and Mg in the soil. For now a split application of K certainly wont hurt anything.
There is no use in getting a special blend to get a 95-95-95 rate. You can use the triple 17 that is available. 558 pounds per acre of triple 17 equals 95-95-95.
Dave

I chukle evertime when I hear someone on here mention triple 17 and triple 19. Here in southern Minnesota there is no such thing as 17-17-17 or 19-19-19 except for at TSC and that is blended and bagged for the hobby boys who don't mind paying twice or even three times what it is worth. Here we use the originals map, dap, nh3, urea, uan, and potash. We mix it exactly the way the soil samples call for it to be blended. These 95 units of each across the board makes me wonder how did that work out so well to fall right into a perfect division using 19-19-19. If that soil sample and recommendation turns out to be a legitimate one I would have it custom blended rather than using 17-17-17. 17-17-17 just makes more work and more total pounds of product being spread. Why spread what you didn't need I sure wouldn't. On top of that the cost of 17-17-17 would be scary.

 

[BC]

If you were to make your own blend using muriate of potash, DAP and ammonium nitrate to 95 -95 -95 It will take 535 lbs/acre the following blend (this makes a ton):
Muriate of potash - 592 lbs
DAP - 772 lbs
Ammonium nitrate - 636 lbs