Soil Test Results, Now what?

[Dave]

I have to agree with somn in that those triple 17, or 19 blends are for the backyarders. It is the sales people saying, "lets just toss a little of everything at the problem and hope we get it right". His original recommendation that came out so nice and even to 500 pound of triple 19. That ran up a red flag for me. I am a Certified Crop Adviser. I do tons of fertilizer recommendations. They just don't come out that even. Also I have learned to lookout for someone making a recommendation who has something to sell.

BC, your blend is about a triple 18. So it is 500 pounds of triple 19, 535 pounds of your blend, or 558 of triple 17. It is just a matter of which one is cheaper. To me the blend here isn't the issue it is the recommendation.

I am a long ways from this field and I have no experience with Bermuda grass. However, according to the book (and I am not a real big fan of book numbers) Bermuda uses less K than any of the cool season grasses that I work with. Grass is basically grass. All of the different species have the same basic properties. They are just adapted to different climates.

If it were me I would take the test results to a qualified third party and ask what they think. The key is someone who is qualified who has nothing to gain or lose with their recommendation.

 

[East Caney]

I got a lost a little bit in all that...

Are you skeptical of the Ag Extension recommending 95 lbs ea. for N,P, and K?

Or, are you skeptical of the guy at the coop who mentioned that they have 17-17-17, but suggested a custom blend with split applications of 50-100-50 (he rounded up from 95), then 50-0-50.

Or, are you skeptical that I've just created numbers and threw them on this board to waste both our time? (BTW, I assure you it's not this one)

Again, reading tells me that bermuda uses N-P-K at a ratio of 4-1-3. I'm not refuting that and I'm willing to fertilize according to that. I'm assuming, the first fertilizer application is calling for so much P and K because it is correcting existing deficiencies (watch the spelling on that one!). My real issue is with the 50 lbs of N he wants to put down now. Am I most likely to lose it to volatilization and leaching, or is it likely to be there waiting when the bermuda comes out of dormancy?

There's some grass (very short) that's green underneath the bermuda. I assume that it's ryegrass, but I don't know. Will all of the N applied early go to that grass?

 

[preston39]

I believe the advice strongly suggests getting the test properly analyzed and the solutions from an arms length source. i.e...from someone who doesn't stand to gain from the outcome.

 

[BC]

I got a lost a little bit in all that...

Are you skeptical of the Ag Extension recommending 95 lbs ea. for N,P, and K?

Or, are you skeptical of the guy at the coop who mentioned that they have 17-17-17, but suggested a custom blend with split applications of 50-100-50 (he rounded up from 95), then 50-0-50.

Or, are you skeptical that I've just created numbers and threw them on this board to waste both our time? (BTW, I assure you it's not this one)

Again, reading tells me that bermuda uses N-P-K at a ratio of 4-1-3. I'm not refuting that and I'm willing to fertilize according to that. I'm assuming, the first fertilizer application is calling for so much P and K because it is correcting existing deficiencies (watch the spelling on that one!). My real issue is with the 50 lbs of N he wants to put down now. Am I most likely to lose it to volatilization and leaching, or is it likely to be there waiting when the bermuda comes out of dormancy?

It is way too early to fertilize bermuda. It has not even started greening up yet.

Your test results are showing the need to catch up on phosphorus. I still think you would be beter off applying 75 to 80 units of potash for every hay cutting along with the nitrogen.

 

[farmerjohn]

You can put out the lime ASAP but don't expect any benefit until next year. It will take several months for the lime to work its way down into the soil (unless you want to disk it in).

As far as the fertilizer goes. I have had the same type of soil test recommendations.

Put out what you can afford.

Since you are on sand (I assume) I would put out about 350-400 lbs/A of 23-7-14 before the first cutting and after each cutting. This will give you around 75-100lbs of actual N. Then at the end of the season or whenever it is convenient put out some potash (0-0-60) to make up the difference. What i mean by this is that coastal uses fertilizer at a ratio of 4-1-4 or 3-1-3 (depending who you ask). so you need more potash to bring the percentage up. Depending on how many cuttings you get, I would put out approx 150 to 200 lbs of potash.
The N gets you the growth that you need. The potash keeps it from getting winter kill and the roots strong.

As far as the winter grass coming up now goes. If you want to fertilize now you can get a cutting of this grass by mid April. As long as you cut it before it goes to seed it will make great hay. Probably 18% protein. Then fertilize the coastal and watch it grow.

I have been working on the fertility of my soil for nearly 30 years and the soil tests are just now starting to show some improvement on fertility.

good luck and have fun.

 

[East Caney]

Well, it'll be nice to have any grass off my own meadow. I bought cows in December 2005 thinking "surely there won't be two consecutive dry years." :shock: Well, there was...so I've been paying $70/roll for bahia grass hay and supplementing for protein. And, this :shock: is the look my wife gives me when she sees how much money is actually going towards feeding the cows...then I have to remind her how things will get better. But I'm sure I'll be getting this look :shock: again when she sees the cost to fertilize the meadow...then the $18/roll to bale it. But hopefully we'll both be looking like this when there's an abundance of hay and I'm weaning heavy calves this summer/fall.

(Anyone notice how much I like these little emoticons?)

 

[dcara]

I'm in NE Texas also and the recommended numbers seem real high for either clay based or sandy loams in our area. When you did your soil sample how deep did you collect from and how many places did you collect from around they field. If you had collected from just one or two spots where a herd maybe had a meeting awhile back then the soil sample you submitted would not accurately represent the soil requirrements

Given the drougt the past 2 years I've seen coastal fields in our area suffer huge losses on much better soil than your describing. What is the history of the field we are talking about. Has it been harvested annually, grazed, neglected?

 

[dcara]

BTW - I agree with getting the lime down first, then later application of ferts and would spray before the fert to get the weeds under control. In soil that poor there has got to be weeds unless there was a previous spraying program in place.

 

[East Caney]

This is a hay meadow that is never grazed. The meadow is fertilized twice/yr for two cuttings. There was no fertilizer applied in 2006. The fertilizer used in 2005 was chicken manure only. There has been a 5-10 year lapse since lime was last applied.

The soil sample was taken from 3 different locations throughout the meadow. The samples were dug 6-8" deep with a 6" auger. I then took that soil, mixed it, and let it dry (It had just rained). There are two places that have some weeds coming up. 95% of the meadow is weed-free.

I don't believe there's any great problem with the soil other than needing the fertilizer. It's 17 acres of coastal, and the first cutting has always yielded 85-100 rolls (except 2006 when no fertilizer was applied). Even in drought stressed 2005, the first cutting yielded 87 rolls.

Either way, I'll pay care and attention to the meadow to see that it's fertilized so I can stop giving money away and know what I'm feeding my cows.

 

[dcara]

Sounds like you'e done the right things; and, are lucky to have such a great producing piece of property. Since it has never been grazed I would think a 3 loaction sample from 17 ac would be ok unless there was alot of slope to it (although the soil folks tend to recommend about a 10 location sample). A 25ac section of my property which has about a 2:1 slope has tested better at the bottom of the slope than at the top.

JMO - you might want to consider occassionaly grazeing it to return some of the nutrients and help reduce your future fert bills, also overseeding with some arrowleaf clover would help reduce your future nitrogen bills. I suspect your aware of this but thought I'd mention it anyway.

BTW - in this area coastal is often the prefered horse hay and goes for at least twice what cow hay goes for.

 

[dcara]

One more thing - there is a clinc being held at Van Zandt on March 23rd where one of the topics will be pasture recovery and care given the 2005-2006 drought.

 

[East Caney]

dcara,

I'm sure there's a slight slope to the meadow. It's not noticable to the eye, but it's on a creek bottom and the drive to the meadow has a noticable slope.

I'd love to graze it, but the fence around the meadow needs some work, and I'd have to work on the water source. A creek borders one side, but the drop off is probably 20 feet. I guess I could find some way to make that water accessible.

After the drought the past couple of years, I'll be making sure there's plenty of reserve hay before I look at selling anything. My wallet is out of dollars and full of receipts.

Oh, and thanks for the info on the clinic in Van Zandt. Can you PM me any additional info you have regarding it?

 

[dcara]

You can probably get a copy of the flyer from your ext agent. Its called the Cow-Calf Clinc and will be at the Van Zandt sale barn. Listed topics are:
-Pasture rennovation considering the drought
-Bull Selectoin
-Ultra Sound Data Collection
-External Parasite Contol
-Husbandry practices to make your calves worth more

 

[East Caney]

Thanks for the info. I'll see if I can get the info.