Soil test advice

[Isomade]

My pastures are cross sectioned into 40 acre sections for rotating grazing. I had a soil test done that called for 60lbs phosphorus and 60lbs of Nitrogen. Just cross sectioned the pastures this year after the soil test. I have mostly coastal Bermuda with some native grasses. Some spots in each section have a good stand of Bermuda and some spots are poor. The cost of fertilizing this 160 ac piece of land is $11000! Due the the high cost of phosphorus. I want to do the best job I can to get my pastures in good shape. I live in SE Oklahoma. How would you go about improving this piece of land? I am very interested in any ideas.

 

[BC]

Was that recommendation for hay or for grazing? If they made it for 1 cutting plus grazing, then ask them to rerun for grazing only. You can still use the recommendation to make hay.

I would also look into establishing some adapted varieties of clovers in some of the better fields. Check with your Extension agent about what works in your area. Legumes need to be a part of every southern producers program.

 

[cowboy43]

You did not say if you harvest hay off of some of the 160 acres or all is used for grazing. It is nice to have pretty green growing grass,but the economics has to be thought out if you are operating for a profit. if not, it does not matter. How many calves will it take to pay for $11000 of fertilizer, with the small profit margin their is in a cow operation at $50 profit per calf it will take 220 calves on 160 acres to pay for $11000 of fertilizer, then it would be no profit and a lot of money turned over. I am starting over after the long droughts and have come to the conclusion to make a profit, to downsize the herd , to cut hay expenses and re-seed pastures to native grasses, that will produce with no fertilizer. Native pastures have to be more closely managed and not grazed as intensively with a low stocking rate, chemical weed control and rotational grazing. I believe with proper stocking and grass management more profit will be made. We are grass farmers before we are ranchers.

 

[Isomade]

No hay, just grazing. Thanks for the replies.

 

[dun]

What we did was started with the least bad fields and limed and fertilized them one at a time over a couple of years. Now that they're up to snuff it takes very little fetilizer (none except hay fields) to keep them productive. Cutting down on the stocking rate was the first move and balancing it to what the fields cold produce

 

[upfrombottom]

The cost of fertilizing this 160 ac piece of land is $11000!

I wrote about this on another thread. The latest technology in custom application can easily save you sometimes half, sometimes even more, with variable rate application. Call around and find a fertilizer company that does this, our local co-op changed to it a couple years back. You will have to map out your soil samples with GPS and they will program the map and results of your test in their computer. The big advantage is it will apply fertilizer only where it is needed and at a rate that is needed on a particular spot. It will build up the pour areas allot faster and will save the waste that is applied to areas that need very little. With 160 acres, you have more than enough land to justify a custom variable rate application. The real savings come in the next few years as the poorest soils are brought up to the same level as the best which can never be done economically by putting the same rates across the whole field and your yields will go up to a consistent average across the whole field.

 

[Angus Cowman]

is there any turkey or chicken houses in your area
if you could get litter from them it may be cheaper and I really like the results

 

[cowboy43]

Like what Dun said you have to balance the herd to what the grass will produce year around, and you have to budget your expenses to your cattle sales. I have found you have to be very disciplined to stock to grass production, because it is human nature to overstock when the years are wet, then when a drought hits you get in trouble real quick. The soil conserveration service recommends to stock at 75% of carrying capacity for when the drought hits. I got this information from our local Caldwell co. Texas Tax office for stocking rates which was prepared by SCS.
Improved grass 1 animal unit to 4 to 8 acres
open native pasture 1 animal unit to 8 to 14 acres
mesquite or mixed brush pasture 1 animal unit to 12 to 20 acres
post oak pasture 1 animal unit to 25 to 40 acres

when I saw this I realized how overstocked I operate and when a drought hits I have to spend all my profit and more on feed. because I have always stocked for the good years.

 

[Isomade]

is there any turkey or chicken houses in your area
if you could get litter from them it may be cheaper and I really like the results

I like that idea. Will certainly look into that. Any idea of application rate vs regular fert? And cost? Thanks.

 

[Isomade]

Like what Dun said you have to balance the herd to what the grass will produce year around, and you have to budget your expenses to your cattle sales. I have found you have to be very disciplined to stock to grass production, because it is human nature to overstock when the years are wet, then when a drought hits you get in trouble real quick. The soil conserveration service recommends to stock at 75% of carrying capacity for when the drought hits. I got this information from our local Caldwell co. Texas Tax office for stocking rates which was prepared by SCS.
Improved grass 1 animal unit to 4 to 8 acres
open native pasture 1 animal unit to 8 to 14 acres
mesquite or mixed brush pasture 1 animal unit to 12 to 20 acres
post oak pasture 1 animal unit to 25 to 40 acres

when I saw this I realized how overstocked I operate and when a drought hits I have to spend all my profit and more on feed. because I have always stocked for the good years.

I have thought about the stocking rate. In the past this particular piece of land ran 45 pairs without rotational grazing. I rotate it now and cut back to 38. They did very well this year with no inputs to the land except brush hog. I may cut back to 35. Again this is grazing only land no hay.

 

[Angus Cowman]

is there any turkey or chicken houses in your area
if you could get litter from them it may be cheaper and I really like the results

I like that idea. Will certainly look into that. Any idea of application rate vs regular fert? And cost? Thanks.

around here it is costing $36 pr ton delivered and spread
I apply anywhere from 1-3 tons per acre depending on what I am wanting
on pastures I applied 1 ton pr acre pr yr for 4 yrs and I skipped this yr

 

[novatech]

The economics on phosphorus are long term. There is no way to obtain a pay back the first year.
Proper pasture management starts with building the soil. Once that is done proper forages can be planted. You may be pleasantly surprised at how many come up on their own from the seed bank. Legumes are the major Nitrogen building block for grasses. Legumes must have phosphorus for maximum nitrogen production (along with the proper ph). By applying the proper amount you may never have to fertilize again. You will be able to graze more cattle on fewer acres. You will increase the drought and cold hardiness of your forage. You will choke out more weeds. You can produce more stockpiled forage. You will end up with a more sustainable system.
From soil to grass, grass to cattle, cattle sold, money in the bank.
If you cannot afford to do all at one time do a section at a time, or maybe 20 lbs. P per year for 3 years.

 

[Stocker Steve]

How would you go about improving this piece of land? I am very interested in any ideas.

1) Cheapest way to improve it is mob grazing. You will want to look at what it takes to be to over 200,000 # beef/acre.
2) Second cheapest way in my area is to buy in hay/manure. It costs me $20 a roll this year for rained on hay. It has $14 (grassy) to $19 (alf/grass) worth of minerals in it, but I can not really utilize all of them now since I have driven up P&K, and are now limited by N&S. You will want to calculate the mineral value of local hay vs. your hay price.
3) Third cheapest approach is to reduce your forage production target/acre until you only need to buy in the one most limiting input. I use a lot of beet lime and then have soil tested for 3 or 4 or 5 tons per acre targets to get a feel for the limiting mineral.