Soil Samples

[herofan]

I know that if a question is ever asked here concerning how to improve a hay field, most people will say, "get a soil sample." With that, I assume that soil samples work for people here. Is that correct?

With that, I've been talking with some people locally, and I can't find anyone that speaks that highly of soil samples, because they say they never see any considerable improvement.

We have a local guy who is a big time farmer worth a couple of million, and I asked his hired hand if he did soil samples, and his reply was, "heck no. He puts triple 19 out every year and puts lime out about every 4 or 5 years."

Apparently, he did samples in years gone by and didn't see any difference.

I won't go into all the different stories of what people told me, but the general idea is that they take a sample, spend a fortune doing what it recommends, and there isn't a dimes worth of difference.

One guy told me that he bought some land several years ago that hadn't been cared for in quite some time. He said he put triple 19 on for a couple of years and saw gradual improvement. He decided to get a soil sample and go with that. He said he did that for three years and said his fields were actually worse than when he was just putting triple 19 so he went back to that and it's better.

Since a lot of people here recommend soil samples, I assume this is not the experience you have.

 

[kenny thomas]

I soil sample every 3 years and order blended fertilize to match the results. I see a dramatic improvement in my production. In the past one of the fields needed 0-120-0 per acre plus 2 ton lime. I could have guessed the lime but never the fertilize. A farm i bought 10 years ago had 4" red cedar growing and now I'm stockpiling fescue on the same fields. Just bought another 52 acres and will get soil samples and spread lime and fertilize to recommendations before winter.

 

[Bright Raven]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

 

[kenny thomas]

In hay fields yes, but in pasture most of the K is returned to the soil and the levels can get high enough to limit production and also hurt absorption of magnesium.

 

[herofan]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

That is the attitude I hear. It's not that anyone is against fertilizing and lime applications, but they just feel they can handle it better without a soil sample, and that doing what a soil sample suggests actually works against them rather than improving.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Soil samples are the only way to know what you have and what you don't in your soil. Your big time farmer doesn't have the yields that he could. Lime is needed on a regular basis around these parts, and if your going to plant clover you better have a ph of 6.5 or better. Different plants and grasses require a different needs.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

Is that in you hay fields or everywhere?

 

[Bright Raven]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

Is that in you hay fields or everywhere?

That information comes from the hay producers. Not many farmers here fertilize their pasture. Not a common practice in fact, rare!

 

[kenny thomas]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

That is the attitude I hear. It's not that anyone is against fertilizing and lime applications, but they just feel they can handle it better without a soil sample, and that doing what a soil sample suggests actually works against them rather than improving.

They may actually save money by putting the correct amount on the crop. Tobacco farmers here always put the same amount without testing. When a very large producer came in and used what's recommended before long many followed along because of less inputs and higher yields.

 

[kenny thomas]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

Is that in you hay fields or everywhere?

That information comes from the hay producers. Not many farmers here fertilize their pasture. Not a common practice in fact, rare!

Rare is fine once it's in the condition it needs to be. Nitrogen is the most lost in pasture.
If it produces good without adding anything, great. I would bet if you soil test and use the results it will pay. That said, the soil survey from NRCS can show you the possible productivity of the soil. Adding what's needed to good production soil will have much better results than the same on low production soils.

 

[kenny thomas]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

Is that in you hay fields or everywhere?

That information comes from the hay producers. Not many farmers here fertilize their pasture. Not a common practice in fact, rare!

Where I use stockpile a lot instead of hay, my pasture is my production.

 

[littletom]

Way to much money to buy something you already have. Even if you use as a baseline at least you know whats there. If the ph is jacked up really doesn't what you put on it. On my tobacco we bust big fields in sections to test and fertilize. And grid sample every 3 years. Amazing the differences in a field and how they follow soil type.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I hear the exact same thing north of you. The big experienced operators tell me, to always put on N and K. Regardless of what the samples say if you want high yeilds.

Is that in you hay fields or everywhere?

That information comes from the hay producers. Not many farmers here fertilize their pasture. Not a common practice in fact, rare!

There's a big difference between hay and pasture in the use of K. I've heard to much K in a pasture can cause the staggers and kill a cow.

 

[Texasmark]

Soil samples here are tested and recommendations made by the state Ag. college: TAMU. Ten bucks and a few ounces of dirt from several locations around your pasture to be fertilized, in a bag sent to them with planting aspirations will produce for you a lab analysis for where you are and what it will take to get where you want to be.

Obviously your exacting soil/weather conditions/application ability and all the variables can and will modify the results. Other problem is that you have to go to a custom supply house (bulk dealer) to get the exact mix they recommend. For the STO (Small Time Operator) you are left with the bagged variety and have limitations. I usually buy bags of this and that and mix in my applicator when filling to get my desired results.

One thing is for sure. If you want a crop you have to feed it. Food has to come from somewhere besides the contribution made by the atmosphere!

 

[herofan]

It appears that most here have a positive view of soil samples. I wonder why the people in my area dont experience positive results?

 

[Banjo]

It appears that most here have a positive view of soil samples. I wonder why the people in my area dont experience positive results?

You need good soil moisture and a certain amount of organic matter to have positive results from chemical fertilizer.
Forty years ago , I don't ever remember a poor crop of anything...hay, corn, tobacco it was always good regardless if it rained a little or a lot. Fertilize was in its infancy....lots of organic matter and humus in the soil.

Now much of the humus is gone, fertilize accelerates biological activity....it causes oxidation in the soil. Look at a bag of Ammonia Nitrate it will say "oxidizer" that why things rust real fast that have fertilize left in them.

So now I think different soils are going to respond differently depending on the inherent natural quality of the soil and the abuse its had. soils that haven't had any fertilize on them in years will probably respond better than soils that get it every year.

 

[1982vett]

It appears that most here have a positive view of soil samples. I wonder why the people in my area dont experience positive results?

Could be the ground isn't suited to what the are trying to achieve...

 

[True Grit Farms]

It appears that most here have a positive view of soil samples. I wonder why the people in my area dont experience positive results?

You need good soil moisture and a certain amount of organic matter to have positive results from chemical fertilizer.
Forty years ago , I don't ever remember a poor crop of anything...hay, corn, tobacco it was always good regardless if it rained a little or a lot. Fertilize was in its infancy....lots of organic matter and humus in the soil.

Now much of the humus is gone, fertilize accelerates biological activity....it causes oxidation in the soil. Look at a bag of Ammonia Nitrate it will say "oxidizer" that why things rust real fast that have fertilize left in them.

So now I think different soils are going to respond differently depending on the inherent natural quality of the soil and the abuse its had. soils that haven't had any fertilize on them in years will probably respond better than soils that get it every year.

You do realize that the average corn crop per acre in 1977 was less than 60 bu to the acre. In 2015 the adverage corn crop was almost 170 bu to the acre. Soybeans follow the same track as corn.

 

[wbvs58]

In Australia most of our soils are very phosphorous deficient so in the more intensive areas most grazing properties will have an annual programme of applying what we call Super Phosphate (acid treated rock phosphate to give more soluble P&S). We get a response from the P&S but the rational is to feed the legumes which in turn produce the N for the grass growth.

I do do the occaisional soil test to see how things are going, mostly where I'm growing annual forages but at $150 a hit I do it sparingly.

I feel that it is very hard to get a good representative sample of soil from a paddock. Even taking sample from several different spots and mixing it together is not good as it only gives an average and some areas probably require a lot different treatment to others. Also some areas may have had a heavy dose of fertiliser land there last time it was spread and the effects linger on thereby not being a true representation of the paddock. This may explain why some people are distrusting of soil tests.

Ken

 

[ga.prime]

I know that if a question is ever asked here concerning how to improve a hay field, most people will say, "get a soil sample." With that, I assume that soil samples work for people here. Is that correct?

With that, I've been talking with some people locally, and I can't find anyone that speaks that highly of soil samples, because they say they never see any considerable improvement.

We have a local guy who is a big time farmer worth a couple of million, and I asked his hired hand if he did soil samples, and his reply was, "heck no. He puts triple 19 out every year and puts lime out about every 4 or 5 years."

Apparently, he did samples in years gone by and didn't see any difference.

I won't go into all the different stories of what people told me, but the general idea is that they take a sample, spend a fortune doing what it recommends, and there isn't a dimes worth of difference.

One guy told me that he bought some land several years ago that hadn't been cared for in quite some time. He said he put triple 19 on for a couple of years and saw gradual improvement. He decided to get a soil sample and go with that. He said he did that for three years and said his fields were actually worse than when he was just putting triple 19 so he went back to that and it's better.

Since a lot of people here recommend soil samples, I assume this is not the experience you have.

You have talked to everyone in the world and know everything. So, why are you on here stirring up shyt?