Smoke house

[Alan]

Okay, Jo's pics of buck board bacon made me lose my mind and sent my brain into some serious planning, guided only by my stomach. I'm planning on trying some cured, smoked meats such as his bacon. I want to build or make a smoking unit large enough to handle 20 to 30 lbs of meat of various types. I have looked at some plans of wood smoke houses which have the smoke piped into them, my concern is, will that type of structure reach the needed temp? I see Jo's bacon was done at 200 degrees and reached a desired internal temp of 145.

What would some of you guys recommend for making a good smoke unit. I have even knocked around the idea of converting some type of industrial freezer or fridge. I really don't want a cooking grill, like what we out west call a bar-b-que/ smoker, such as this;

http://www.traegergrills.com/shop/grills

Thanks,
Alan

 

[slick4591]

Alan,

May I suggest doing a lot of research on curing meats before attempting it? Cures can be tricky and toxic if not done properly. Also, there are commercial products available which produce great results and are much safer for the beginner.


There are two types of smoking: cold and hot. Most of the wooden smokehouses use the cold method, while regular metal ones use the hot. As for as a smoke house goes a cardboard box can be used for the cold method and old refrigerators with the plastic and insulation removed can get you to the required temps for the hot method.

Heat sources will run from hot plates to metal fireboxes. The type you have linked to can serve both methods with a cold smoke generator accessory.

http://www.meatprocessingproducts.com/4 ... PAodchYAEg

 

[Jogeephus]

While I will agree there is some risk in curing meat there is also risk in canning, cooking or any other trade or hobby. A little common sense will go a long way to preventing problems and its not rocket science as the jewish people first began curing meat in 3000 BC and we've learned a lot since this time. Unfortunately, the press put out some misinformation in the 70's concerning curing meats and this bad press has given cures an undeserved bad name even though all of this misinformation was retracted and now medical studies are even showing that the nitrates in moderation are good for the heart. Of course, you will still find those who peddle the fear in their attempts to sell you dehydrated organic celery juice curing agents which by the way have higher nitrate concentrations than does traditionally cured meats. Then there are those who refuse to use any additives such as nitrates and will only use "organic sea salt" because they do not want to ingest nitrates/ites even though sea salt contains both nitrates and nitrites only at unknown levels. I'm sure you will see plenty of debate on this if you do a little reading on the net. But if, like me, you believe that in chemistry there is no differentiation between a nitrate in sea salt and a nitrate that is found in the dried sea bed then all this is utter nonsense. Personally, I prefer to know the exact amount of nitrates used in my stuff which is why I use a pure cure.

When you do it yourself you know what's in the meat and you can control a lot of things you otherwise could not. So Alan, I'd encourage you to give it a go and I'll be more than happy to help you any way I can. Thankfully, I had an old butcher to hold my hand for a few years and he just chuckled at all the fearmongering that was going on at the time but unfortunately he died at a ripe old age of 85 - I think from chasing women. His twin brother - also a butcher - is still chasing them.

The best advice I can give you is to keep it simple and don't overthink things. Don't get anal and don't be so caught up in a recipe where the lack of one ingredient keeps you from enjoying yourself. Don't overthink the smoker design either. Like Slick said, a cardboard box will work.

Bottom line is you need to decide what you are going to be making the most of because this will determine the type smoker you need to build. But if you want to do a little cold smoking (<90F: cheeses, salmon, etc) and some moderately hot smoking (bacon, sausage, butt bacon <185F) I'd suggest a simple smoker like this wooden smoker. It will hold around 100 lbs and can be built in an afternoon. All you need is some lumber and some time. You can use a propane burner as the heat source and for smoke simply add a cast iron pot filled with sawdust. This design will do most everything you can imagine and once you set the heat, its near about set and forget. You can spend lots of time building a smoker and you can spend thousands buying one that will do the very same as this simple design. On top of that, it should give your backyard that barnyard look that is sure to impress the neighbors what with that authentic outhouse in the yard look. ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

You moved the smoke house!

Smoking is relatively easy and human nature has a tendency to over think it.
Keep it simple, have some fun playing with flavors. And don't beat yourself up too bad if somethin doesn't turn out like you wanted. Some unintended consequences taste great, but most don't.

 

[hillsdown]

While I will agree there is some risk in curing meat there is also risk in canning, cooking or any other trade or hobby. A little common sense will go a long way to preventing problems and its not rocket science as the jewish people first began curing meat in 3000 BC and we've learned a lot since this time. Unfortunately, the press put out some misinformation in the 70's concerning curing meats and this bad press has given cures an undeserved bad name even though all of this misinformation was retracted and now medical studies are even showing that the nitrates in moderation are good for the heart. Of course, you will still find those who peddle the fear in their attempts to sell you dehydrated organic celery juice curing agents which by the way have higher nitrate concentrations than does traditionally cured meats. Then there are those who refuse to use any additives such as nitrates and will only use "organic sea salt" because they do not want to ingest nitrates/ites even though sea salt contains both nitrates and nitrites only at unknown levels. I'm sure you will see plenty of debate on this if you do a little reading on the net. But if, like me, you believe that in chemistry there is no differentiation between a nitrate in sea salt and a nitrate that is found in the dried sea bed then all this is utter nonsense. Personally, I prefer to know the exact amount of nitrates used in my stuff which is why I use a pure cure.

When you do it yourself you know what's in the meat and you can control a lot of things you otherwise could not. So Alan, I'd encourage you to give it a go and I'll be more than happy to help you any way I can. Thankfully, I had an old butcher to hold my hand for a few years and he just chuckled at all the fearmongering that was going on at the time but unfortunately he died at a ripe old age of 85 - I think from chasing women. His twin brother - also a butcher - is still chasing them.

The best advice I can give you is to keep it simple and don't overthink things. Don't get anal and don't be so caught up in a recipe where the lack of one ingredient keeps you from enjoying yourself. Don't overthink the smoker design either. Like Slick said, a cardboard box will work.

Bottom line is you need to decide what you are going to be making the most of because this will determine the type smoker you need to build. But if you want to do a little cold smoking (<90F: cheeses, salmon, etc) and some moderately hot smoking (bacon, sausage, butt bacon <185F) I'd suggest a simple smoker like this wooden smoker. It will hold around 100 lbs and can be built in an afternoon. All you need is some lumber and some time. You can use a propane burner as the heat source and for smoke simply add a cast iron pot filled with sawdust. This design will do most everything you can imagine and once you set the heat, its near about set and forget. You can spend lots of time building a smoker and you can spend thousands buying one that will do the very same as this simple design. On top of that, it should give your backyard that barnyard look that is sure to impress the neighbors what with that authentic outhouse in the yard look. ;-)

That's easy for you to say ! :help:

Do you take orders and ship internationally . ;-)

 

[Jogeephus]

Freight would be a killer. But seriously, there's not but 20 tongue and groove 1"X6" boards in that setup and you could use plywood. The only real trick its to be sure to use screws to bind it together as the heat will try to make it warp.

 

[Anonymous]

And don't use pressure treated wood or galvanized screws

 

[Jogeephus]

Why not?

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't the heat release the chemicals used fr pressure treating and for galvanizing ?

 

[Jogeephus]

Well yes but think about it for a minute. How much heat are we talking and what chemicals are you referring to? Arsenic? That's been outlawed for years as a wood preservative which leaves micronized copper and if copper is bad for you then I'll need to toss all my pots and pans. As for the galvanized screws, the quantity needed and the high heat that would be required to set off any fumes makes all this just the perfect thing for the gov't to split hairs with. Using this logic then you'd be better off using stainless steel but not just any stainless steel but NFS certified stainless steel. Granted, its looks and acts just like common stainless steel but its different in that its quadruple the price but its certified and that's all that matters. :bang:

Again, keep it simple and use common sense.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm too tired to counter with anything but this:
:yuck:

 

[greybeard]

And, I wonder how they keep the mercury out of sea salt--not that I'm afraid of anything of a chemical nature.

I'm pretty sure that if I tried the wooden smoker you posted, I'd awake one morning to find it burned to the ground.

(or the county code folks out here complaining they heard I have an outhouse)

 

[Jogeephus]

:lol2: So true. Mercury kills that's why you should never eat fish. And be sure not to smoke meat with cherry wood cause its got cyanide in it and that will kill you dead.

 

[lavacarancher]

As mentioned a couple of time in this thread there are a couple of ways to smoke - hot and cold. My smoke house uses the hot method. I built mine using Hardy boards, insulated the heck out of it and lined the walls with Tin. Very much overkill but that's just me. The reason for insulating so well (for me) is because I did not want to build a big fire in the bottom of the smokehouse. I use a "Hibachi" cooker in the bottom of the smokehouse with charcoal and green Mesquite chips soaked in water. I mounted a A/C register in the bottom of the door and a smoke stack with damper at the top of the house. It takes about 30 minutes to get the temperature up to 160 degrees and I can maintain the temp by opening and closing the air controls (register and damper). I smoke my sausage for about 4 hours with an external temp of 160 degrees.

As far a curing the meat with cures I'm with Jogee. I use commercial cures (Potassium Nitrate or Sodium Nitrate). I follow the directions on the cure to the letter. If you hot smoke then the use of cures is not absolutely necessary. If you cold smoke then using a cure IS necessary because the temperature of the meat never gets up to the proper temp to kill the bacteria. As mentioned above the internal temp of the meat MUST get above 145 degrees to kill the bacteria.

For sausage, it has been my experience that once the meat is smoked I then vacuum seal the links and put them in the freezer. Using this method the meat will stay fresh tasting a lot longer than just wrapping them for the freezer. You can also "can" the sausage by putting cut pieces in a Mason jar, pouring a little hog fat grease over the top and sealing the jar. Personally, I don't like this method because after several months the meat takes on a Vienna sausage texture. Still tastes OK but the texture is not to my liking.

Granddad and my Dad never used commercial cures, they used salt and sometimes sugar or a mixture of both. Neither of them had or used a thermometer but their meats came out terrific. They hot smoked during the day time (in Winter) and allowed the meat to cool down at night. They usually smoked the meat for two days depending on how many hams they had hanging. I can remember my Grandmother going to the smokehouse in the middle of Summer and cutting a slab of ham that had been hanging since the previous Winter, trimming the green off it and frying it up for breakfast. It was delicious and we never got sick from eating it.

I personally don't like the taste of Sage so I use very, very little of it when seasoning the sausage. Some folks like it and that's OK. I do use a lot of garlic, some salt, black pepper and red pepper. For those that like Italian flavor we use a little oregano and other spices.

 

[greybeard]

:lol2: So true. Mercury kills that's why you should never eat fish. And be sure not to smoke meat with cherry wood cause its got cyanide in it and that will kill you dead.

That don't leave much left to smoke with cept maybe Lignum Vitae ("remember that--it'll be on the test")
(I thought they wuz jokin about that test? but they weren't)

 

[Alan]

Thanks for all the replies some great info for my stomach lead mind. Jo I really like the smoke house you posted, looks pretty easy to build, it should only take me ..... 3 days. A couple of questions on it; after all the talk on toxins, I'm sure the inside of the house is not finished with varnish, it appears to be, but I'm assuming it's just stained from smoke, correct, smoke stain? Second, what is your heat source? Okay, three questions, what type of thermometer are you using in the door.

Lava, I really like your input on the hibachi as the heat source and you heat control system.

To all you good folks in the south, please remember most folks in the PNW don't smoke their own meats, so I will sound stupid with most of my questions.

:tiphat:
Alan

 

[greybeard]

The only stupid questions are those left un-asked Alan. I live in the South, can't answer a single one of your questions and have never smoked anything other than a brisket on a pit smoker which is nothing like what is being discussed. I'm following this thread closely to learn this almost lost art style of cooking and preserving. Please continue all.

 

[pdfangus]

I am with greybeard.....
I remember helping with the process as a child but as I got to my teen years we had left the country as dad had to take work in the city. Unfortunaltely I recall being in the salt box and digging out hams and such and covering them with molasses and pepper....but I did not learn the important details. I do know that we smoked for multiple days....but the smoke houses were much bigger than what is being shown here....big enough to be a horse stall and the salt box was in the smoke house. the salt box was big enough that I got in it to hand out the meat and the grown ups were preparing to smoke it and hanging it.

So all this detail is a good education for me as well. I have benn threatening to do some smoking but did not have the confidence to want to risk a bunch of meat with my lack of knowledge.

I like the hardy board idea.....

I just recalled that we had a small fire just burning in the dirt floor of the smokehouse. not much more than a smoldering fire. still remember how good the farm yard smelled while it was smoking....have no idea what they used for wood.....

 

[greybeard]

My grandfather's smokehouse was big as a modern day master bathroom--made of logs, and wood slab shingles on top--dirt floor. I don't know if I was ever around when they were using it for smoking, but they also stored sweet taters in it the rest of the time. The yams took on a smoky flavor and odor just from being in there--and dang good to eat.

 

[Jogeephus]

Alan, you are right. Its just smoke smudge. The more the better. Wilbur - other smoker - has such a smudge on it that you can cold smoke cheese in it without ever lighting a match.

For a heat source I'm using one of those three ring propane fish cooker burners. I like this because I can turn off all the rings but one and it will go up to about 145F - 175F and hover there indefinitely. For smoke, I use a cast iron dutch oven that I fill with sawdust and put on top of the burner. I just light one side of the dust with a torch and it just smolders across the pot and gives 2-3 hours of smoke. Its very important to be able to hot smoke at a consistant heat of less than 180F else the fat will render in the meat. The result on sausages will be a gritty sawdust like texture. So you can imagine how tedius it would be to tend a fire and keep it beneath this range for the time required to bring a sausage to its proper internal temperature.

To cold smoke with this setup I just don't light the burner and only burn the sawdust. This will keep the temp below 90F as long as its not too hot outside.

Speaking of toxins and stuff I'll go ahead and give you some information now about the curing salts. As mentioned, these chemicals have gotten a bad name with a lot of misinformation. Many of the "greener types" refuse to use them and instead opt to use the high priced sea salts or the organic dehydrated celery juice. What they refuse to admit is that sea salt has impurities in it and two of these impurities are nitrite and nitrates and as for celery juice - its just the same only in a more pure form. These ites/ates are part of the natural nitrogen cycle and the presense of them in the meat gives hams that familiar rosey red color. If you ommit it, then your ham will be grey. The nitrates/ites is our only practical defense against botulism which is the real enemy when working with meat. Granted, just like common table salt, these chemicals can kill you but with the knowledge we now have we now know the minimal amounts we can use and still protect us against botulism - even though the old recipes are still quite safe. In fact, when curing is done within the guidelines the end product has less nitrate/ites in it than most vegetables you buy at the store.

While I have nothing against curing with sea salts I prefer to know how much nitrates/ites I'm adding to the food hence I use either Cure 1 or Cure 2. Cure 1 is 6.25% nitrite with the rest being pure salt and this is used for something you are going to smoke in the danger zone like a sausage. Cure 2 has both nitrate and nitrite in it and gives you a longer period of protection because the nitrate has to break down with time before it forms nitrite which is then broken down to nitrous oxide which prevents any possible botulism from sporing and it is this reaction that reacts with the myoglobin that creates the rosey color in the meat.

Of course some people maintain that our understanding of how to work with nature to protect ourselves from botulism is bad and they will continue to use sea salt or their organic dehydrated celery juice. Personally, I find it amazing that mankind figured this out so many years ago. Of course, I also find it amazing that some people will spend extra to buy bacon that is labelled "nitrate free" and cured with "organic dehydrated celery juice" when it has been found to have three times the allowable limit of nitrates/ites as does conventionally cured bacon. Semantics! Don't you just love it?!

You can still find some of the old smokehouses around here if you know what to look for. Like ya'll said, they were simply little barns with a dirt floor and a salt box and usually an overhaul bench. Could you imagine what the food police would think of these setups today? Typically, they would lay the hams in the salt for about two weeks. This salt was an impure salt similar to sea salt and was purchased in bulk bags. After the hams lay in the salt, they were rinsed and hung for about two weeks to equilize the salt concentration. Then a small fire was built on the floor each morning and each night. The purpose of the fire was just to put a smudge on the meat to protect against most insects except for the skipper. They would continue to "cold smoke" the meats till they got the desired color on the meat and the fires would cease and the hams would just hang to age. The hotter the summer the more nutty the flavor. Some people would even stitch a rattlesnake to some cord and tie him to a peg where the fire had been. This snake served as protection against thieves but I'm pretty sure that would violate a thieve's rights today.

Here is wood fired smoker that belongs to a friend of mine. This one is used to smoke mullet and will hold about 200 lbs of fish. He made a fortune smoking mullet out of this setup.