GoWyo
Well-known member
Anyone have experience with progeny of this bull? His docility EPD is a little concerning. I assume it comes from the Game Day in his pedigree.
Sitz Logo 8148
- Thread starter GoWyo
- Start date
gizmom
Well-known member
Game Day was snorty
GoWyo
Well-known member
What was? Feet or something else?
GoWyo
Well-known member
That's what I figured. He is several generations back in Logo 8148's pedigree, so will see what happens on a sample of his progeny. Being careful how I use him.
I have had more misses than hits with my AI side selection in the past. I am much more selective and critical of udders, feet, maternal disposition at calving and longevity. My current bull list is short but I won't have issues with those areas with the bulls I am currently using. 8148 has been a bull I have considered in the past I just never pulled the trigger.
GoWyo
Well-known member
His EPD profile matches up pretty well with 7861 and Resilient in type and kind and a good PAP EPD with data backing it up. Not going to use on Resilient daughters though even though my Resilient daughters have been great on disposition. 7861 gets the nod on Resilient.
We have had the same results here. We don't use the unproven wonder's anymore. Wonder what issues will crop up. We are using older proven sires. Used 2 nine year old sires last year. At least you can see what their daughters and sons are like at 6-8 years of age. And they are still alive unlike many of the highly promoted sires that would be the same age.
I am not afraid to use a young bull but I need to know what is dam is like for the phenotype traits I like. Longevity in the bottom side of the pedigree is a must also. Which 9 yr old sires did you use if I may ask?
I have never had a bull breeder or owner that didn't say the dam wasn't a good cow with good teats, udder, feet and legs. I have seen some of the dams later and the udder and teats were a wreck. I always get told it is becaithey flushed. Guess it was just a coincidence the daughters we got had the same issues and were never flushed. I like buying bulls out of older cows and using AI sires out of older cows. We don't have time to go see every AI sire and their dam. That is why I have went to solder sires. We. did use Rob Roy based on the owners advice and satisfied so far
The right people will send you pictures. Use bulls from working cow outfits that don't have the time and want to pamper cows. Sometimes a road trip is necessary. Last year I visited with a breeder that had sold a bull to Select Sires with 12 hours I had a picture and video of his mother. I used the bull last year and will use him again as he fits the mold for what I need.
Due to medical issues and my partner has some issues and has to be home at night. Do seeing an AI sire or his dam in person isn't feasible. What you consider necessary isn't possible for us. I have found there is very few top cattle men and women who can access cattle. Also most of the AI sires are from other environments and issues show up here that don't elsewhere.
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
Improbable as it sounds, I often got better calves from the bulls on the farm rather than from bulls in the tank. When buying a bull, I always wanted to see his mother, as his daughters will look like her. Even at that, I got tired of importing problems. After a long and winding journey, started keeping my own bull calves to use. When the AAA announced curly calf syndrome and the other odd dozen recessive genes they "discovered" some years ago, I slept easy, knowing it wasn't in my herd. Have had a couple hiccups along the way, and eliminated those bloodlines.
My daughter had a nice looking cow with a nice bull calf she exhibited at the fair one year. A fellow cattleman asked what I was going to do with that calf? Take him home and castrate him, send him to the feedlot. He's too nice a calf to do that to. Might be, but I can't give away bulls, steers on the other hand. Think about it, you'd give $4,000 for that calf if you were buying. Matt started the gears turning in my head, took a few years, been using my own bulls nearly 20 years now. Amazing how problem free running a cow calf herd can be, a world apart from where I used to be. Grandpa drilled into my head, don't inbreed, that's where the dwarfs came from. I sure miss grandpa, but he was wrong about dwarfs and inbreeding. If the recessive genes are there, inbreeding merely exposes them, and they then can be eliminated from the herd. That darn red coat being a prime example of a recessive gene.
That should stir the pot,
Nick
My daughter had a nice looking cow with a nice bull calf she exhibited at the fair one year. A fellow cattleman asked what I was going to do with that calf? Take him home and castrate him, send him to the feedlot. He's too nice a calf to do that to. Might be, but I can't give away bulls, steers on the other hand. Think about it, you'd give $4,000 for that calf if you were buying. Matt started the gears turning in my head, took a few years, been using my own bulls nearly 20 years now. Amazing how problem free running a cow calf herd can be, a world apart from where I used to be. Grandpa drilled into my head, don't inbreed, that's where the dwarfs came from. I sure miss grandpa, but he was wrong about dwarfs and inbreeding. If the recessive genes are there, inbreeding merely exposes them, and they then can be eliminated from the herd. That darn red coat being a prime example of a recessive gene.
That should stir the pot,
Nick
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
Yes. Lost some rented ground and had to downsize, now below the number I figured it took to make it sustainable over the long term. The boy has been experimenting with AI again, trying to produce a bull or two, because the herd is getting tightly inbred. It's frustrating to see home grown calves grow faster than AI sired calves, one could argue it's not even possible, but here we are. I do encourage caution, inbreeding will concentrate genes and traits, good and bad. Someone mentioned feet and legs, think also the various birth traits, udders, really everything has a genetic component. We like what we've seen here. My calves hit the ground running, grow like bad weeds, and I've been told they look like peas in a pod. Didn't have any curly calf, fawn calf, developmental duplication, etc., did find and eliminate the red gene, which I knew was lurking, grandpa would approve of that.
Recommended reading for anyone seriously breeding livestock, The Battle of Bull Runts. It's the story about eliminating the dwarf gene from the nation wide Hereford herd.
Last I knew, the AAA will certify a bull recessive trait free, if bred to 32 of his own daughters and all resulting calves are normal. Something that would have prevented a lot of heartburn before curly calf was announced.
You are right, everyone has a story, and I would hesitate to say I have anything figured out. Call me a student of life, still paying my dues.
Nick
So what would be the one bull that your cowherd is most line bred to? If I may ask.
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
The boy keeps the registration papers now, I'll have to get back with you on that. Had a Dateline son did well for us, over half the herd were his daughters when he left. Had another bull my wife nicknamed Max, had some unique breeding behind him, again, over half the herd were his daughters before he left. Both before I had the courage to linebreed. Give me a couple days.
