Simi Diluter Gene?

[Stocker Steve]

I purchased a red grade Simi who raised a whopper (rat tail) calf and winters well. I would like to get some replacements out of her...

I assume if I breed her black I will get another rat tail. So if I AI her red, what are the odds of the calf also carrying the diluter gene?

 

[KNERSIE]

50% if the bull isn't a carrier, more if the bull is.

 

[dun]

50% if the bull isn't a carrier, more if the bull is.

Doesn;t matter if the bull is red or black, still a 50:50 chance since with a black bull the cow is the only one with the diluter gene

 

[KNERSIE]

50% if the bull isn't a carrier, more if the bull is.

Doesn;t matter if the bull is red or black, still a 50:50 chance since with a black bull the cow is the only one with the diluter gene

I missed the "breed her black" part

 

[Stocker Steve]

50% if the bull isn't a carrier, more if the bull is.

Doesn;t matter if the bull is red or black, still a 50:50 chance since with a black bull the cow is the only one with the diluter gene

So diluter gene does not show with red, but will always show with black, and in this case a non carrier black bull give you a 50% chance on another rat tail?

 

[dun]

50% if the bull isn't a carrier, more if the bull is.

Doesn;t matter if the bull is red or black, still a 50:50 chance since with a black bull the cow is the only one with the diluter gene

So diluter gene does not show with red, but will always show with black, and in this case a non carrier black bull give you a 50% chance on another rat tail?

The diluter gene with red shows as yellow, with black as grey. But the rat tail syndrome only comes in with the black and diluter gene. I sometimes wonder if thre isn;t something else besides the diluter gene that causes it because I've seen grey(ish) calves that weren;t rat tails.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I sometimes wonder if thre isn;t something else besides the diluter gene that causes it because I've seen grey(ish) calves that weren;t rat tails.

If the grey calves you are talking about also mean/include 'smokey' or 'chocolate', I've had plenty of those that were not rat tailed and usually did well at the sales.

I have also wondered if there isn't some other odd-ball deal going on as well that isn't solely the diluter.

Katherine

 

[dun]

I sometimes wonder if thre isn;t something else besides the diluter gene that causes it because I've seen grey(ish) calves that weren;t rat tails.

If the grey calves you are talking about also mean/include 'smokey' or 'chocolate', I've had plenty of those that were not rat tailed and usually did well at the sales.

I have also wondered if there isn't some other odd-ball deal going on as well that isn't solely the diluter.

Katherine

What's bizarre is that the diluter gene in braunvieh causes brindle

 

[KNERSIE]

I sometimes wonder if thre isn;t something else besides the diluter gene that causes it because I've seen grey(ish) calves that weren;t rat tails.

If the grey calves you are talking about also mean/include 'smokey' or 'chocolate', I've had plenty of those that were not rat tailed and usually did well at the sales.

I have also wondered if there isn't some other odd-ball deal going on as well that isn't solely the diluter.

Katherine

What's bizarre is that the diluter gene in braunvieh causes brindle

Is that a diluter gene or a wild colour gene like you get in brahman? Whichever it is jerseys has the same (or similar) one.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Is that a diluter gene or a wild colour gene like you get in brahman? Whichever it is jerseys has the same (or similar) one.

It is a wild colour gene. According to the book there is a gene called e+ that causes the jersey colour and is one of the two genes involved in brindle colour. However I suspect that there are more than one variety of the gene that can cause brindle colour, because of the different background colours that brindles can have. For example are english longhorns much darker brindle than a hereford\jersey cross, and a brindled swedish red is somewhere between the two.

 

[Lucky_P]

I've posted the link before, but here 'tis again - a nice, lengthy discussion on the various color/spotting genes in cattle.
http://www.braunviehcenter.com/cattle_g ... part2.html

I'm open to correction, but I'm assuming that if this cow is red - and not yellow or light cream colored - she's only got one copy of the color dilution gene - so...there's a 50:50 chance, if bred black, that she'd have a diluted black calf - but not all diluted blacks are 'rat-tails'.

I used several diluted red/spotted Simmental bulls, back in the 1980s, and, as a result, have lots of 'diluted' cows in my herd - probably half or more of the 65 cows are brown/chocolate/dark gray/light gray/white or yellow. Can only recall *maybe* one 'rat-tail' calf being born here in the past 16 years.

 

[randiliana]

That's a good link Lucky_P.

With the Simmi dilution gene, one copy will lighten the red up some, and 2 copies will change her to tan (usually) So if she is a lighter red it is possible she only carries one copy of the gene. 50% chance of passing that on. The rattail issue is something in addition to the dilution of black, there are some studies out there that talk about it. It is another gene, and it doesn't affect red(tan).

Brindle is a separate gene from e+ (wild type). I believe that there is only one gene that causes brindle. There are different gene/s that affect the shade of the animal (Dk/med/light).

 

[ANAZAZI]

Somewhere in my ravings and rambligs I was trying to say that.

Brindle is a separate gene from e+ (wild type). I believe that there is only one gene that causes brindle. There are different gene/s that affect the shade of the animal (Dk/med/light).

 

[randiliana]

I thought maybe that you were ;~>

 

[VanC]

I purchased a red grade Simi who raised a whopper (rat tail) calf and winters well. I would like to get some replacements out of her...

I assume if I breed her black I will get another rat tail.

You can't assume that. As dun said, rat tails result from a combination of the dilution gene and the black gene, but they are very rare. Smokies, usually Charolais/Angus crosses, are pretty common but very few of them end up as rat tails. In other words, just because you combine the black gene with the dilution gene, it doesn't mean you automatically get a rat tail. You could breed her to a black bull every year from now on and she might never have another rat tail.

So if I AI her red, what are the odds of the calf also carrying the diluter gene?

It depends. If she's a very light red, or yellow, then she probably carries two dilution genes, and the calf will get one. If she's more of a medium red, then she probably only carries one dilution gene, and it's a 50/50 chance.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Lots of discounted grays with thin hair coats in the sales barn. Some folks argue about most of them not being a "true rat tail" but the discount is usually the same.
Had a yellow named Honey. She and her rat tail are gone.
Kept the big red, sold the rat tail, and crossed my fingers. Could become a top cow...

 

[fitz]

Lots of discounted grays with thin hair coats in the sales barn. Some folks argue about most of them not being a "true rat tail" but the discount is usually the same.
Had a yellow named Honey. She and her rat tail are gone.
Kept the big red, sold the rat tail, and crossed my fingers. Could become a top cow...

I raised one that gave me eight calves. No rat tails with black Simmental bulls.
When I started using Black Angus bulls, she started calving rat tails. Three in a row with two different bulls. She went with with the last one.

fitz

 

[3waycross]

Lots of discounted grays with thin hair coats in the sales barn. Some folks argue about most of them not being a "true rat tail" but the discount is usually the same.
Had a yellow named Honey. She and her rat tail are gone.
Kept the big red, sold the rat tail, and crossed my fingers. Could become a top cow...

I raised one that gave me eight calves. No rat tails with black Simmental bulls.
When I started using Black Angus bulls, she started calving rat tails. Three in a row with two different bulls. She went with with the last one.

fitz

HMMMMMMMMMMM i am not sure that is possible. That would mean that there was some kind of genetic predisposition to that "DEFECT" associated with Angus, and we all know "that" is not possible.

 

[fitz]

Lots of discounted grays with thin hair coats in the sales barn. Some folks argue about most of them not being a "true rat tail" but the discount is usually the same.
Had a yellow named Honey. She and her rat tail are gone.
Kept the big red, sold the rat tail, and crossed my fingers. Could become a top cow...

I raised one that gave me eight calves. No rat tails with black Simmental bulls.
When I started using Black Angus bulls, she started calving rat tails. Three in a row with two different bulls. She went with with the last one.

fitz

HMMMMMMMMMMM i am not sure that is possible. That would mean that there was some kind of genetic predisposition to that "DEFECT" associated with Angus, and we all know "that" is not possible.

I think I'm reading your humor. That's pretty much the point I was trying to make on the possible glitch when crossing the Angus and Simmental. So far I'm pleased with the SimAngus heifers I have retained, but I'll firm that up a little later as some should calving this month.

fitz

 

[3waycross]

Right on Fitz. I hope your heifers turn out great. That is a good cross.