Silvopasture anyone?

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Douglas

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Central North Carolina
There is a current story in the November progressive farmer magazine about silvopasture. Guys are planting a warm season grass under pine trees to the cattle to graze. I have thought a lot about this over the years. You can make the case that planting all of you pasture in pines is going to be more profitable than raising cattle over the long run and preserve your tax advantages.

The question I have for you guys in the southeast with pines is this. Do your cows shun the grass which has pine straw in it like mine do. I can’t figure out if the shade helps the fescue or if the cows are avoiding the pine straw, because the grass is always taller and thicker along the wood line near pine trees.
 
Douglas":18g7ozey said:
because the grass is always taller and thicker along the wood line near pine trees.
Click to expand...

We don't have fescue but the reverse seems to be the norm in our situation. I attribute this to loafing and/or sapping.

read the the article too. What was your opinion of it?
 
^ his situation seems ideal, pine stand thinned by a storm. Most situation would be much different such as planting and protecting trees in existing pasture. My timber land is mixed pine and hardwoods that are way too thick and would need a lot of work to get any grass going. If i were starting out on a new farm, i might try to establish the trees, then the pasture, then the fencing , then buy the cows. I did it exactly the opposite way.
Your basically would be planting trees already spaced out rather than thinnning out the pulpwood after 15 years or so in a typical stand. University of Miss has a lot of info on silvopasture.
 
I like the idea of silvopasture because I like the idea of maximizing resources. From the article it appears to me that neither the author or the producer really have a good understanding of the subject.
 
I can't find the article on line, and I'd like to read it. Can ya'll give me a link or is it only in print?
 
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What about the cattle compacting the soil under the trees. That would evewntually block the mousiture from penetrating the soil in the root zone. The soil level would also be lowered near the trunk which would allow entry of bacteria etc. where the tree would be most vulnerable.
 
dun":2hryfdei said:
What about the cattle compacting the soil under the trees. That would evewntually block the mousiture from penetrating the soil in the root zone. The soil level would also be lowered near the trunk which would allow entry of bacteria etc. where the tree would be most vulnerable.
Click to expand...

Never had much of a problem with tree loss once I learned not to feed hay under the trees. Also seems that the occassional death loss is more prone to certain shallow rooted species like oak which suits me just fine since it is considered a weed.
 
Jogeephus":1d8ed4im said:
dun":1d8ed4im said:
What about the cattle compacting the soil under the trees. That would evewntually block the mousiture from penetrating the soil in the root zone. The soil level would also be lowered near the trunk which would allow entry of bacteria etc. where the tree would be most vulnerable.
Click to expand...

Never had much of a problem with tree loss once I learned not to feed hay under the trees. Also seems that the occassional death loss is more prone to certain shallow rooted species like oak which suits me just fine since it is considered a weed.
Click to expand...
Oak is our dominant species. I know that oaks, almond and walnut all suffer from cows tramping around under them. Pines have a long taproot but I would think the impaction from cows would still cause problems with the nutrient/water uptake. The accursed cedars seem to flourish under the same conditions.
 
Dun, your mention of black walnut reminds me of another recent article I read where they suggest running cattle under walnut but as you point out the possibility of getting heart rot from root damage is very real but I suspect that walnut was chosen since its present value is so great making this scenario would look wonderful on paper. Be that as it may, with enough concentrated foot traffic I think any tree could suffer damage since the actual feeder roots for any tree is only a couple of inches under the ground. In my area the cattle are not run in high enough concentrations to cause these problems except when they group intensely.

With the number of questions I've been asked on this subject and the number of articles I've read of late I wonder if there is not some cost share money out there for this "Intentional Diversification" as some like to call it. Sounds kinda fancy don't it?

Unlike what many of these articles depict, we don't try to change mother nature in our system but we merely work with her. We don't try to plow, fertilize or plant anything in the woods for the cattle cause this is costs money and defeats the whole purpose of forest grazing. But maybe these folks have it figured out and I concede that I cannot have my cake and eat it too but I do enjoy the icing out of the bowl.
 
According to the stuff i have read that in the southeast pine forest, a planned silvopasture has two rows of pines close together and then 40 ft. till the next two rows. The problems they have is the trees grow too fast and the wood is less valuable.
 
Jogeephus":2r81m4at said:
Unlike what many of these articles depict, we don't try to change mother nature in our system but we merely work with her. We don't try to plow, fertilize or plant anything in the woods for the cattle cause this is costs money and defeats the whole purpose of forest grazing. But maybe these folks have it figured out and I concede that I cannot have my cake and eat it too but I do enjoy the icing out of the bowl.
Click to expand...

That's the smart way to do it. There's a lot of forage in the woods without spending any money on it. Cows will eat just about as much as a goat will.
 
Jogeephus":5yzuvbdk said:
Dun, your mention of black walnut reminds me of another recent article I read where they suggest running cattle under walnut but as you point out the possibility of getting heart rot from root damage is very real but I suspect that walnut was chosen since its present value is so great making this scenario would look wonderful on paper. Be that as it may, with enough concentrated foot traffic I think any tree could suffer damage since the actual feeder roots for any tree is only a couple of inches under the ground. In my area the cattle are not run in high enough concentrations to cause these problems except when they group intensely.

With the number of questions I've been asked on this subject and the number of articles I've read of late I wonder if there is not some cost share money out there for this "Intentional Diversification" as some like to call it. Sounds kinda fancy don't it?

Unlike what many of these articles depict, we don't try to change mother nature in our system but we merely work with her. We don't try to plow, fertilize or plant anything in the woods for the cattle cause this is costs money and defeats the whole purpose of forest grazing. But maybe these folks have it figured out and I concede that I cannot have my cake and eat it too but I do enjoy the icing out of the bowl.
Click to expand...

NRCS has programs that will pay you to fence cattle OUT of the woods.
 
I think it has everything to do with soil types and tree types. In the south the shade provided by the trees helps the cows spend more time grazing and in the hotter climates the warm season grass his not hurt as much by the shade. Also the sparcly planted trees tend to get better prices. Our sandy land is less likely to compact.
 
Douglas":31l7vhlu said:
I think it has everything to do with soil types and tree types. In the south the shade provided by the trees helps the cows spend more time grazing and in the hotter climates the warm season grass his not hurt as much by the shade. Also the sparcly planted trees tend to get better prices. Our sandy land is less likely to compact.
Click to expand...
The soil just might be the biggest part of the equation. What isn;t rock is heavy heavy clay
 

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