sick cow...Bloat??

[kmb67]

Hi-I'm from Greenville, TX area (Northeast of Dallas). I have a 2 year old miniature brangus bull. I was out feeding when he started to walk towards me looking OK, then laid down and couldn't seem to get back up. Within 10 minutes he was laying flat with fast/shallow respirations. I ran to call the vet and said that I "think" it is bloat as his belly was very hard. He said "I'm on my way-call me if he dies before I get there" :roll:
Anyway-he finally made it about 45 minutes later and immediately drained the gas with a needle. He also tubed him with some sort of antacid and gave him an injection of antibiotics. He was much better when the vet left-but still didn't want to stand up. He asked if he could have gotten in to some sort of poison..... (thinking that maybe the bloat was a secondary condition). He has no access to any chemicals and has been in the same pasture for months. I supplement his pasture with horse quality hay and cow cubes. Any idea of a native plant/weed that he might have eaten that would cause him problems? Anyone ever had a bloat??? The vet says he only sees 2-3 a year (figures it had to be my pet bull :evil: ) Any idea how soon he should feel better??? The vet said call if he bloats again or isn't up by Friday morning.
Right now he is propped up against a hay bale (so he sits up rather than laying flat). I put a tent over him for shade and gave him a bucket of water. Anything else I can do??? :(

 

[slick4591]

Could be prussic acid poisoning, which knowing the grass situation around here could be because of drought stressed Johnson grass. Hope he pulls through for you.

Symptoms and treatment.

Death can occur within minutes if large quantities of forage with high prussic acid
potential are consumed. Animals consuming smaller amounts over time will show, in
progression, excessive salivation, increased respiratory rate, staggering, falling, severe
convulsions, then death. Animals can survive once symptoms have begun if removed from the
forage. Treatment usually involves administering sodium nitrite and sodium thiosulfate by a
veterinarian. Forage high in prussic acid potential can also be high in nitrates and the animal
symptoms can be similar. See bulletin, "Managing forage to reduce nitrate poisoning of
livestock."

 

[hillsdown]

Hi-I'm from Greenville, TX area (Northeast of Dallas). I have a 2 year old miniature brangus bull. I was out feeding when he started to walk towards me looking OK, then laid down and couldn't seem to get back up. Within 10 minutes he was laying flat with fast/shallow respirations. I ran to call the vet and said that I "think" it is bloat as his belly was very hard. He said "I'm on my way-call me if he dies before I get there" :roll:
Anyway-he finally made it about 45 minutes later and immediately drained the gas with a needle. He also tubed him with some sort of antacid and gave him an injection of antibiotics. He was much better when the vet left-but still didn't want to stand up. He asked if he could have gotten in to some sort of poison..... (thinking that maybe the bloat was a secondary condition). He has no access to any chemicals and has been in the same pasture for months. I supplement his pasture with horse quality hay and cow cubes. Any idea of a native plant/weed that he might have eaten that would cause him problems? Anyone ever had a bloat??? The vet says he only sees 2-3 a year (figures it had to be my pet bull :evil: ) Any idea how soon he should feel better??? The vet said call if he bloats again or isn't up by Friday morning.
Right now he is propped up against a hay bale (so he sits up rather than laying flat). I put a tent over him for shade and gave him a bucket of water. Anything else I can do??? :(

The only other thing I can think of is that an impaction will cause bloat, but your vet would have examined for that. Good luck with him and I would just keep on doing what you are . I am not familiar with your area but I am sure someone will ask questions as to what weeds and legumes you have growing in your pasture .

 

[kmb67]

There is not much Johnson grass in that pasture (mainly Bermuda/Dallas grass). It was also cut/baled a few weeks ago so it is very short. I was told that Johnson grass was OK when it was short (only toxic when stressed/mature). Now I'm going to worry about my other cows! He did have access to some weeds if he stuck his head through the fence, but he gets fresh hay and there is still some grass in the pasture (mostly the bermuda that is still green) so I don't know why he'd go after the weeds!

 

[Anonymous]

Acidosis maybe. If your hay is high protein, and he's getting too many cubes...or maybe even green grass bloat. Has your grass suddenly taken off with recent rains?

 

[kmb67]

Well he's still pooping (I can smell the oil coming through-so if he was impacted-that seems to be resolving??). He is eating, and He took a nice long drink while I held the bucket for him. He looks like he is thinking about getting up. He has his front legs out in front of him-but I haven't seen him make any serious attempt to actually try to get up. He was definitely more bothered when I flay sprayed him today (he hates fly spray). Other than that, I still have him in roughly the same spot and have been trying my best to keep him shaded in this 100+ weather........

 

[dun]

I'm a big believer in getting them on their feet. I don;t resort to hotshots, etc. Frequently if you just slap him across the face with your cap a couple of times he will at least try to get up and usually make it all the way to their feet.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Interesting... he could have just gotten a "hot section" of grass and/or could just be genetically prone to bloating... something to do with the distance from the last rib to how far the rumen is that allows some animals to bloat more easily.

Make sure you roll him up onto his haunches... this aides breathing, ability for him to burp it out (with the head creating the high point for venting of the gas), and better positioning for him to stand.

You may want to get some sort of foam reducing agent to put with the guy, I know they make it in mineral form, lick blocks, etc. -- I don't remember the name of the anti-foaming agent, but it should help him...

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[kmb67]

I'd love to get him up and at least get him into the barn so I know I can keep him in the shade (and so he doesn't get eaten by coyotes :shock: ). He keeps scooting out from under my primitive tent structure that I have draped from my tractor (picture a childs fort draped from furniture and you get a pretty good visual :roll: ). I have tried pulling, pushing, hosing, bribing and irritating him without much luck. I don't want to beat the poor thing if he truly "can't" get up.... He does at least look like he is "thinking" about it-but just hasn't budged as a result of the above attempts.
Stupid creature! When I look at him, other than refusing to get up, he looks fine. I can't find any tenderness along his spine or on his hips. The day it happened he had been walking towards me looking OK. I certainly didn't notice any
incoordination, lameness or dragging. I only saw him walk about 20 feet before he went down, but I usually notice something like that immediately. It's so frustrating!
I have done my best to keep him "sitting up" as the vet said that it was important. The few times he wanted to lay flat, I propped him up against a bale of hay and my tractor tire.
I will look for the "anti-foaming" stuff. We have some knowledgeable cow guys at tractor supply.

 

[chippie]

Cattle get up backwards from horses. His front legs will need to be folded under him. If he is small enough, stand behind him and try lifting him from the rear with your hands in his flanks.

When cattle stand up, the rear half goes up first, then the front half follows.

 

[kmb67]

Thanks-I never noticed that they get up backwards :oops: I have had horses for almost 40 years-I've only had the cows for 6 months, so other than books, I have little experience with them.
When the bull 1st went down he actually had his butt up for a few minutes-I guess he was trying to get up.
My neighbor (raises cows) just came over to see if he could help me get him up-no luck. He just looks like he doesn't quite feel right and seems quite content where he is.... He had turned himself completely around somehow, so his legs must be working a little.....
The neighbor also said that he had a young heifer a month or so ago with the same symptoms. The vet tubed her, then gave her Nuflor?? A long acting antibiotic. He said that she was down for 3 days-then was just up grazing again. Hopefully mine will do the same. His vet said some sort of weed may have caused it....?

 

[djinwa]

No answers here, but more things to ponder. Could be completely off-base.

You might ask your vet about electrolytes or minerals. Deficiencies of which might cause general weakness and inability to stand, and decreased gut motility (and bloat?).

Supposedly electrolytes like potassium can be lost in heat stress conditions which it sounds like you might have.

Won’t affect all cattle as some are more prone to heat stress than others (fat or black or large cattle).

Blood tests might help diagnose.

Do you have minerals out for the cattle?

Here’s some general reading on Problematic Bovine Recumbency, often in dairy cattle from low calcium after calving.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... /91100.htm

 

[djinwa]

Doing alittle more reading and found the following. Again, could be not the problem with your bull, but something to be aware of.

http://lhu.emu.ee/downloads/Welfood/WP3T6L7.pdf

Evaporative heat loss through sweating and panting is the primary mechanism for heat loss at high environmental temperatures. As a result of water loss from
sweating at high temperatures thirst is increased, more urine is excreted and the
huge waterflux resulting from increased water consumption also causes heavy loss of electrolytes.

Potassium (K+ ) loss from the skin increases by 500% in unshaded cattle. In attempts to conserve K+, cows increase urinary excretion rates of Na+.

In high temperature there is panting respiration (an important reaction to cool the
body by evaporative cooling). The rapid loss of C02 results in respiratory alkalosis.
Cows compensate by increasing urinary output of HC03-. Constant replacement of this ion is critical to management of blood chemistry. Heat stress increases dietary requirements for the key electrolytes, Na+, K+ and HC03-.

Dietary electrolyte balance is especially important in locations where environmental temperatures exceed 24 ºC and is exacerbated if relative humidity exceeds 50%.

Management of the dietary electrolyte balance is based on adding essential body
salts and electrolytes to the drinking water and feed. It stabilises the dietary
electrolyte balance, promotes homeostasis, assists the osmoregulation of body
fluids, stimulates appetite, ensures normal skeletal development etc.

 

[kmb67]

Well-my husband said that he almost got up. He got the back up-the front part way up-then buckled (of course I didn't see it). By the time I got there he was laying happily munching hay in his little fort :roll: . The vet said to try hoisting him with the tractor-but I couldn't get the straps right and they looked like they hurt (and he just hung there looking at me :roll: -he's a really tame bull so It's really hard to bother him). I tried a few times and then gave up.
I gave him some electrolytes. The vet said to give him 8cc of Dex once a day and see if anything changes. He also shared the statistics that "every day down is a 25% less chance that he will get up" :(
I hope the fact that he at least made a good effort to get up is a good sign. I think tomorrow I'll try to rig a better sling and hoist him up again....... Any suggestions for lifting him to his feet with the tractor. I just have a couple of 3" straps and it's hard to get them just right so they don't "pinch" when I try to lift him..... He probably only weighs about 400 lbs??? He is about 34-36" -2 years old.

 

[Suzie Q]

Instead of straps you use a contraption that goes over their hips and lift with a front end loader.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

two strong backs can sometimes get one up by the tail

get legs positioned for rising as best as possible (fronts folded under, hinds up close to belly and flexed if possible (note you should be turning him from side to side if he isn't doing it on his own, so if he has been laying on one hip only, it may be stiff and almost paralyzed - work it, massage and try when the circulation is good)

squat down facing away from his but and take tail up as close as you can while draping it over one shoulder

proceed to throw your back out as you lift - have helper steady critter or assist in whatever way possible (good victim for yelling at)

usually once the hind end is up they will give a good effort to get on up - be ready to help stabilize - use tail and just let them stand for a while before trying to make them walk. They may go back down a time or two - but once they figure out they can do it it will get easier. Sometimes they get lazy and forget. if he is moving around out of the shade, it means he is trying - be there to help and see what happens. (put his favorite food just out of reach can motivate too)

 

[vclavin]

We had a cow down once from calving, A little larger than your bull but we used old baler belts to lift her once a day. We also put her food and water a little out of reach so she had to scoot to get to them. It kept her muscles in shape and in about a week she was up on her own - vet was wrong abut her never stand and wrong about breeding back. She gave us calves for years after.
Sure hope your bull get better and stand soon.
Valerie

 

[kmb67]

Well he hasn't stood up yet-but he is trying. He is never in the same place when I come back, and a couple times he has moved a good 10-12 feet. He seems to be turning on his own-but I do flip him regularly (I "roll" him back in the barn when he gets too close to the door). He is still eating well, and is very perky. You wouldn't know anything was wrong other than he just doesn't get up. He tried to get up when I was there yesterday and I tried to get under him to help support the front-but he never made it all the way up.... The back seems OK, and the left front was almost up-but he right front seemed weak?? I am continuing the dex and just hoping for the best. I need to rig a better way to hoist him up. I tried the hip lock device-but it just didn't fit him right. I made a rope harness for the front legs that goes under his arms then in front of his chest. It seems uncomfortable though-and the nice 6" strap that goes in the flank area also just bunches up and looks uncomfortable. Is there a better way to rig the straps??

 

[hillsdown]

Stop the dex, it is hard on the kidneys and liver if given for that long. Switch to a Ketoprofen like Anafen, every day for 3 days ,it is a NSAID and pain killer. I would also give him some good antibiotics to help prevent bed sores .

 

[kmb67]

Thanks-I didn't know that-I'll stop the dex-can I get the other drug without a prescription? He is on nice soft ground-and he's turning pretty well, so no major sores yet. A couple small abrasions-but I think they are from lifting him. Would you just give an otc antibiotic, or something from the vet...?