Showing Clones

[Ryan]

Do you think clones should be allowed in the showring with other non-clone animals?




The topic of cloning has become pretty hot in the longhorn industry, just thought i'd get some opinions on the showring from others.

Ryan

p.s. this is not specifically in regard to longhorns, rather all showing no matter breed, open or junior, or whos on the lead.

p.p.s. feel free to vote without responding...i know it can be a touchy subject

 

[Rustler9]

I agree that this is something that will probably affect every breed if it hasn't already, not just the Longhorn breed. I don't have a problem with clones or someone cloning as long as they are in a class by themselves in a show; as long as the animal is identified as a clone or a descendant of a clone (even if it's a few generations back in the pedigree) and as long as there's regulations as to an animal that is being sold (whether or not it's cells have been retained for cloning). That has to be made known up front.

I'm not really afraid of clones, although time will tell as to how they stand up to their natural born brothers and sisters. It will be interesting to see if the clones of Day's Feisty Fannie (for example-she was what 12 or 13 years old when they cloned her?) hold up as long as she does. These things haven't been around long enough to see what the long term effects will be. Will their lifespan be as long as an average Longhorn cow who usually lives up into teens and twenties? Will they be more susceptible to diseases and ailments than other cattle?

As Ryan and other Longhorn breeders on this board are already aware of, there is a controversy in our association over clones and how they will be handled in terms of showing, designation of their clone status on registration certificates and also designation of an animal that is sold-has this animal had cells taken before the sale to clone in the future or has this animal already been cloned? This will come up in other breed associations if it hasn't already and I would assume that it has.

Of course when this cloning thing first started many of these things had not been thought out or planned as this was and is a whole new frontier in the livestock industry. I personally wouldn't do it if I had the money to do it with. It is quite expensive although several breeders who are doing it are defending it because they are able to regulate what they will have born and can predict what it will become and of course it can and probably will be a better speciman that the animal that the clone cells were harvested from due to nutrition and conditions in which the animal will be reared. I don't think that this will ever have a huge impact on the Longhorn industry but I may be wrong. But, there are too many breeders who do not agree with the ethics of cloning-is it morally wrong to do this? as well as the unkowns about longevity that I've already mentioned, diseases etc. And just the costs of cloning. But to me the real reason that I don't want to do it even if I had the money to put into it is as a breeder and a lover of my breed of cattle I enjoy the challenge of mating this bloodline to that bloodline and the anticipation of what will be the result. Instant gratification is somewhat alluring but I draw the line there. Ok, let me step down. Next....

 

[WagaAgeyv]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

 

[Hippie Rancher]

I don't show so I should probably not say anything, but a thought sure did occur to me. If clones were used you sure could tell who was doing the best training/husbandry because theoretically the only differences would be environmental.

 

[Miss Daisy]

I don't show so I should probably not say anything, but a thought sure did occur to me. If clones were used you sure could tell who was doing the best training/husbandry because theoretically the only differences would be environmental.

thats only if everyone gets the same clone... very expensive for us little ffa kids!

 

[redfornow]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

LOL
I am not trying to argue, really dont even care about this issue.

BUT, what part of shoving your left are up a cows rear and depoiting semen from an animal that she will never see half way across the world is either natural or "god's way"?

MD
:roll:

 

[msscamp]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

LOL
I am not trying to argue, really dont even care about this issue.

BUT, what part of shoving your left are up a cows rear and depoiting semen from an animal that she will never see half way across the world is either natural or "god's way"?

MD
:roll:

Hard to argue with that! :lol: :lol:

 

[warpaint]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

LOL
I am not trying to argue, really dont even care about this issue.

BUT, what part of shoving your left are up a cows rear and depoiting semen from an animal that she will never see half way across the world is either natural or "god's way"?



MD
:roll:

I'll take this one as the wife isn't on right now. We don't AI. Not to say that at some point we might, but for now it's strictly au-naturale.

 

[6M Ranch]

I don't have any problem with showing clones in the same classes. The thing everyone doesn't realize is that a clone is the same genetically, not phenotypically. AI'ing, ET, sexing semen. None of it is natural, and not everyone can afford to participate in these methods.

 

[WagaAgeyv]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

LOL
I am not trying to argue, really dont even care about this issue.

BUT, what part of shoving your left are up a cows rear and depoiting semen from an animal that she will never see half way across the world is either natural or "god's way"?

MD
:roll:

I can answer for myself and say that AI is closer to God's Method than making, the same cow into the same cow or the same cow or the same cow or the same cow or the same cow or the same cow or the same cow.................
because you are not making different cows you are making the same cow over and over and over and over. AI is not clonig but still mixing two different animals not the same animal into the same animal into the same animal.......

 

[redfornow]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

LOL
I am not trying to argue, really dont even care about this issue.

BUT, what part of shoving your left are up a cows rear and depoiting semen from an animal that she will never see half way across the world is either natural or "god's way"?



MD
:roll:

I'll take this one as the wife isn't on right now. We don't AI. Not to say that at some point we might, but for now it's strictly au-naturale.

Again not wanting to argue, I really dont care and do some AI work and very little transplant work ALL are playing god of some type. But oh well I reckon you could argue that gods way would be to let the heifers free to breed with whatever bull she could find at the time. Not the best way but it would be gods way. lol You dont have to cull the bad ones just about cull themselfs. ;-)

Very few show type annimals are not at least AI'ed at this point. Part of the beast I reckon.
Cloning just like AI or transplant work all are not an exact science you can guess and you can plan but at the end of the day you take what you get. Some are better some are worse and some just make you shake your head why?????


Be good now ya hear

MD

 

[aplusmnt]

I believe that if they are going to be shown, they need there own Class. DO NOT PUT IN WITH OTHER ANIMALS!

This is not fair to all the rest of us. Who play by God's rules and show what comes from male and female the original way!

LOL
I am not trying to argue, really dont even care about this issue.

BUT, what part of shoving your left are up a cows rear and depoiting semen from an animal that she will never see half way across the world is either natural or "god's way"?

MD
:roll:

At first glance what you say makes since, but when you really examine it. There is a big difference from distribution of semen, basically only difference in A.I. and a Bull is the Bull uses a penis to get it in there and A.I. uses a metal rod. Same semen, same fertilization of the egg as god intended.

Cloning is a whole other system. No semen, no egg fertilization as god intended. It is a lot different.

As far as showing cloned animals, as cloning gets cheaper, you will see Steers that have won, Ft Worth or other big shows that got $150,000 prize money getting cloned and there owners winning again with the same Steer basically year after year. It will totally change the show business if something is not done about it.

For me no on cloning, I will not even buy semen from a cloned bull, but that is just the Moral ground I have chose for myself, to each his own.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

If there are 3 clones of the same Grand Champion Bull in the same class (born on same farm, fed same, etc...) , which will the judge choose. He can never be right b/c they're all the same.

As far as showing cloned animals, as cloning gets cheaper, you will see Steers that have won, Ft Worth or other big shows that got $150,000 prize money getting cloned and there owners winning again with the same Steer basically year after year. It will totally change the show business if something is not done about it.

I agree


I agree that AI and ET ain't natural, but isn't that why it's called ARTIFICIAL Insemenation?