Should shots have been fired?

[Alan]

That's my only question, should shots have been fired in this case?

Video is at the bottom of the story;

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1519817

 

[James T]

From the information given, probably not. But, the information does indicate that the officer was attempting to shoot out the tires and the driver was evading arrest.

 

[dun]

Don;t see why not

 

[Craig Miller]

I couldnt get the video to play but from the story no cop should shoot at a vehicle with kids in it. Even if he was shooting at tires i doubt his aim is so good that he hit them while the car was moving. If she would have cooperated im sure it would have only been a ticket and she could have went on. People that run from cops have reasons to run

 

[Commercialfarmer]

This ought to be good.

 

[slick4591]

Definitely not! Chances of bringing a vehicle to a stop with a bullet are really low. In my opinion the shooter was more of danger to others by doing that than the vehicle was at that point. We all know what those stray bullets can do.

 

[greybeard]

Police are all well trained professional marksmen. There's no such thing as a LEO ever allowing a stray bullet to leave his/her weapon.

 

[snake67]

Police are all well trained professional marksmen. There's no such thing as a LEO ever allowing a stray bullet to leave his/her weapon.

GB

If you truly believe that comment I have some seriously cheap land for sale just back of our farm.

I am hoping you are being sarcastic.

Never trust a cop with a firearm out of its holster - most of them only fire that thing once a year or at the most quarterly - and barely have to do much more than hit a piece of paper inside 25 yards and often only inside 25 feet - under highly controlled and stable situations to qualify.

And I would go as far to say that the vast majority seldom if ever train on a target that has increasing range, decreasing range, elevation changes and azimuth changes - without even placing increasing or decreasing speed into the target equation - all of which present to the qualified "stable" shooter challenges that are for the most part insurmountable - making a hit nothing more than luck.

Having engaged people in a moving vehicle a few times overseas utilizing both long and short arms I can tell you from very personal experience it is far different than standing at a range and shooting under calm controlled situations.

Far too many excellent examples of poor firearm and bullet control by the police available on the internet alone to disprove what you just stated.

Despite the talk about shooting out tires and such - there is a lot of "spray and pray" in what I saw.

While there are exceptions, it is a true fallicy that the public easily falls into when they believe cops are highly trained and skilled handlers of firearms.

The average cop cannot outshoot anything other than himself.

Best to all

Bez

 

[M.Magis]

The average cop cannot outshoot anything other than himself.

Best to all

Bez

That generalization probably isn't completely accurate nor fair. I know a handful of LEOs, and they spend more time at the range than any others I know. Just like any profession, some take things more serious than others. It's not fair to paint the entire group with one brush.

 

[TexasBred]

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: GB forgot to put the little :mrgreen: at the end of his post and now gets a lecture. :bang:

 

[Alan]

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: GB forgot to put the little :mrgreen: at the end of his post and now gets a lecture. :bang:

Sarcasism is very difficult to communicate well on CT, I too was wondering if GB was being sarcastic or not..... But with GB and a couple of others I often wonder that, so I take the easy road and assume they are being sarcastic about everything. :mrgreen:

 

[Alan]

The average cop cannot outshoot anything other than himself.

Best to all

Bez

That generalization probably isn't completely accurate nor fair. I know a handful of LEOs, and they spend more time at the range than any others I know. Just like any profession, some take things more serious than others. It's not fair to paint the entire group with one brush.

Yet magis, that is usually what happens, one bad or careless cop provides a picture that all cops must wear in the eyes of "most" of the public, including myself.

 

[Limomike]

shoulda woulda coulda.. the fact is .. shots were fired.. probably trying to shoot out a tire to stop the vehicle.

 

[Alan]

IMO, cops let the situation get out of hand way to quick and the LEO who fired the shots needs to be fired and find a job that doesn't involve a fire arm. Mom was completely in the wrong, this was a simple ticket for doing 16 mph over in a 55 zone, then taking off. With that said, shattering a window with kids in a car and a 14 yr old not wanting to get tased is over the top. Cop threatening to tase my kids things would have gotten ugly also. Then I think the cop who just arrived on seen, his first reaction was to draw his weapon and open fire with 8 people in front of him and the possibility of a ricochet off the pavement. Finally, three state patrol officers couldn't find another way to defuse the situation without pulling a firearm on a mother in a overloaded minivan with five kids? Radios, nail strips, roadblocks ....... Nah, let's go commando on them. :? Shooting out the tires? Really? No better options in this case? ..... Mom and five kids, no guns, just a 14 yr old kid watching his mother get roughed up, although that part was completely her fault, take the dammm ticket a go back to vacation. Shooting out the tires does nothing to make THIS situation right. Again for me in the end it boils down to three state patrol officers could not contain a minivan mom and her kids without taking shots at them? Out of line! :mad:

Yes all cops will be held responsible for this one cops actions, it's too bad for the many good/fair cops out there.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Probably not the last time we will hear about this "mother"

Sounds like the 14 year old is on his way.

So what is an officer supposed to do? Let the 14 year old assault him in front of his mother and get away with it? Let the mother escape? Just let her go?

Officers should protect and serve. The kids in that car didn't seem very well protected. Would you put your children or grandchildren in that van with that driver going over 100 MPH? Officers needed to stop that situation. I am sure they all have 20/20 hindsight today.

 

[greybeard]

The average cop cannot outshoot anything other than himself.

Best to all

Bez

That generalization probably isn't completely accurate nor fair. I know a handful of LEOs, and they spend more time at the range than any others I know. Just like any profession, some take things more serious than others. It's not fair to paint the entire group with one brush.

Yet magis, that is usually what happens, one bad or careless cop provides a picture that all cops must wear in the eyes of "most" of the public, including myself.

http://www.chron.com/local/investigatio ... cmpid=hpts

 

[ChrisB]

I don't have a problem with shots being fired. I see way more innocent people killed by drivers trying to elude LEO's than innocent people hit by stray bullets fired from LEO's. I would be shocked if anyone lost their job over this as it was reported.

That being said; I don't really understand how she was able to drive away the SECOND time. Fool me once shame on you... Unless I'm not understanding the story correctly.

 

[slick4591]

In 30 years of doing the job and the 11 I've been retired I have yet to see or hear where a bullet stopped a vehicle unless it took the driver out. Most departments have policies against shooting at moving vehicles because it is not an effective way of stopping one.

 

[greybeard]

Judge Dredd--presumption of innocence--lost.
As the Houston Chronicle article points out, the standard explanation and defence for lethal action in the past few decades has been one of fear. Frightened people are dangerous people.
How many times have ya seen a press conference by the DA, Chief of Police, or High Sheriff and the overwhelming central part of the explanation was: "The officer(s) feared for his life". Frightened people have no place in law enforcement. If they cannot control their fear, they need to find a new profession, before something incredibly stupid like this happens again.

/\ That little fiasco, and another the same day cost the taxpayers $4.2 million in settlements, $44,000 for that pickup truck replacement, and $20,000 for another truck damaged by wild bill Hickoks in blue uniforms.
The drivers owe their lives to the grace of God alone.

Police didn't pattern this explanation after castle doctrine--it was the other way around. States patterned "stand you ground" and Castle Laws on this premise of "I feared for my life and felt threatened" , some lawmakers (legislators) even stating that if it applies to police officers, it must also apply to citizens in their own personal defense. Goose and gander.

Do I think they are really cowards and scared? NO! I think it is just a much over-used and too often used excuse for poor judgement and hasty action.

 

[highgrit]

They will get a good chunk of change over that. I can't believe the kid didn't get shot. And the mother was the whole problem 100% at fault. I also don't think the cop should of fired his gun. I don't see where his life was at risk. I do see where the first officer's life was in danger when the kid charged him the second time. There's no telling what kind of weapons he could of retrieved from the van.