We just had a phone call today from a customer that makes you say, "Really?!" To those of you that sell bulls as part of your business, do you require customers to sign agreements outlining the seller's guarantee, as well as expectations, proper management, etc... We haven't sold many yet, and I feel that adding this might alleviate MANY headaches down the road. To those that do require a signature, do you put anything in your guarantee that you feel is particularly important (ie. definition of a satisfactory breeder, etc..)? Just looking for some thoughts on the topic in general! We've bought several bulls from a very good operation down the road, and they gave us the OK to use their agreement as a template if we ever needed to. Maybe the time has come?? We aren't in a position right now to offer refunds or exchanges en masse, but apparently some obvious things need to be put in black and white. :bang:
Selling Bulls & Buyer Expectations
- Thread starter Jessica06
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Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Guarantee them for one 90 day breeding season. I don't expect my customers to sign any thing.
We do guarantee our breeding bulls to breed and get 1 calf crop. That said we have 'nt had to replace many bulls in the last 50 years. One thing always sell your cattle just the way you would like to buy them. If we don't shoot square with our customers we will soon be looking for another line of business. If everything has to be put in writeing then we just as well throw in the towel. Their has to be a certan amount of honesty--trust in this cattle business to make it work. There will always be that odd one that only lives to try to cheat their way to success. One trip around and the next time just remember the lesson and send them down the road.
Aaron
Well-known member
I have all my buyers sign off on a official sales agreement provided as a template by my breed association. It is simple and straight-forward. Buyers really like it as it lays both of our responsibilities right out in the open. Protects me from anyone looking to get a free bull for the breeding season.
I will post the template later tonight. Not so easy to do on an iPad.
I will post the template later tonight. Not so easy to do on an iPad.
Beef Man":lug7uh8f said:
Absolutely. Our problem right now is customers not remembering what we've told them! :shock:
Just trying to figure out our protocol before we (hopefully) start selling more. We want to protect ourselves without stepping on any toes.
WalnutCrest
Well-known member
I've found its rarely a bad idea to put the most important items down on paper, and to go through each one with the buyers with them having a chance to ask questions, make comments, suggest a change, etc. This also gives me an opportunity to explain why I have any particular item in any agreement I have.
Why would a buyer expect anything more than a current Breeding Soundness Exam performed by a licensed professional and a bill of sale with the registration papers?
Good question. Worries about non-performance was the call we got today. That would be nearly impossible with this particular bull, but in general I think that breeding performance (libido), or lack there-of, is something that you just can't guarantee, when it comes to refunds and replacing bulls. Am I right? When we buy a bull, we understand that it's a risk we have to take. Which is what the sale barn is for. I remember reading a breeding guarantee in a sale catalog a while back, and they defined a breeder as having produced at least 1 calf. Even then, I think that's pretty generous as there are so many things that can go wrong on the cow side of things.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
TT is that all you expect when you buy a new truck?? Tell the customer to bring the bull back for a refund or a replacement bull. I have loaned my herd bull to a customer till I could get him another bull. That's when I started the 90 day breeding season guarantee.
WalnutCrest
Well-known member
Bring him in for a semen test and/or get some of those ladies preg checked.
Either option should answer some questions they have.
Either option should answer some questions they have.
ricebeltrancher":1thfzm5a said:He's off by himself and the cows aren't showing heat.He's been there since the summer. We told them that he probably just got all the cows bred!
The problem is probably not his libido. It does sound like they don't know much about cattle though. I agree with somone needs to get their cows pregchecked before they start byching about the bull you sold them.
I buy bulls every year. There is a good breeder near by me that I have bought a few from over the past two years. I bought one last year from the close by breeder and the year before from another breeder a couple hours away. The bull from the breeder a couple hours away had a foot that had a bad corn that we just couldn't get rid of. He limped constantly and we had it removed then it came back. I mentioned it to him and without hesitation, mind you it had been a year, he said I'll be at your house tomorrow. He showed up the next day with one of his herd bulls, apologized, loaded the bull with foot issues up, and lent me his herd bull for the breeding season with full credit toward a bull at this years sale.Red Bull Breeder":3fyvnapr said:
The breeder near by that I bought a bull from this year died for no apparent reason three months after I bought him. Just dropped dead in the pasture. No apparent reason. I told him what happened and he said, "well we will have a nice crop of bulls at the next sale you can just buy you another one." I have this month bought 3 bulls none of which were from him nor will they ever be. I'll be buying in February from the breeder a couple hours away and there is no telling how many bulls he will sell because he went above and beyond to keep a good name. several friends that know the story are now going to his sale as well. A good name is worth more than gold. Don't ever forget that.
I agree with this also.3waycross":1ig28kqs said:ricebeltrancher":1ig28kqs said:He's off by himself and the cows aren't showing heat.
The problem is probably not his libido. It does sound like they don't know much about cattle though. I agree with somone needs to get their cows pregchecked before they start byching about the bull you sold them.
We had something along the same lines happen to us a few years ago. A breeder took back a bull when they definitely didn't have to. We've spent about $20000 more with them since then. It definitely makes a difference when they go above and beyond.
We also bought a bull back from a neighbor that we had sold him last year, a couple months ago. He died from bloat last week (ugh), but I'm still glad we did it.
3waycross, we sold this bull because we have too many heifers. His oldest are having their second calves this spring. He's probably had close to 150 for us in 4 years, so I KNOW he will breed cows! We suggested they get the cows checked. Hopefully we don't hear back, but either way I consider our obligations met. The only way that he could NOT be breeding cycling cows is if he's sick or injured, which would be unfortunate.
We also bought a bull back from a neighbor that we had sold him last year, a couple months ago. He died from bloat last week (ugh), but I'm still glad we did it.
3waycross, we sold this bull because we have too many heifers. His oldest are having their second calves this spring. He's probably had close to 150 for us in 4 years, so I KNOW he will breed cows! We suggested they get the cows checked. Hopefully we don't hear back, but either way I consider our obligations met. The only way that he could NOT be breeding cycling cows is if he's sick or injured, which would be unfortunate.
bigbull338
Well-known member
around here most reg breeders are 1 breeding season or 6 months.it used tobe 3 months but the breed assoc raised it here awhile back.now this is for the poster.ive never signed anything from the breeder.an i wont sign anything.sounds like you need to go look at the bull yourself an do what you can to deteramine the prob.an remember your falt his falt no bodies falt its your rep on the line.do what you think is right.
Jake
Well-known member
The matter really isn't if you can afford to take the bull back. It's can you afford not to? What is the future opportunity with these people?
Sounds like the bull is probably fine but it would be prudent of you to call and check on them to see how the preg check goes and if they are satisfied with your product in the end.
Sounds like the bull is probably fine but it would be prudent of you to call and check on them to see how the preg check goes and if they are satisfied with your product in the end.
Red Bull Breeder":hlfnbxpy said:
I think what you offer is absolutely terrific RBB.
I also think what the breeder did for Iso in loaning him a bull and giving him full credit towards a replacement was fantastic.
How would you, RBB, have handled the other situation Iso had with the bull that dropped dead?
