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Schedule F up Again ?

Stocker Steve

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A neighbor stopped by for coffee today. It was a long conversation. At some point he shared that he lost money cropping (again) last year, and now he wanted me to rent his (mined out) land. This is the third rental request I have received in the last year. Two of the three requestors plan to retire. Are you seeing this kind of consolidation in your area, and where do you think this trend will end up?
 

Turkeybird

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We are seeing some land come available here from older fellas who have decided to quit while their ahead, others that jacked the land rental prices up when corn was$8 have just faded out and the land lords wonder why nobody will pay 100$ + rent. A flood in oct of 2015 followed by a hurricane in 2016 has put a lot of guys in a hard spot
 

Clodhopper

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I've heard of big operators giving up some of their overpriced rent ground ($225/A) just to have someone snatch it up at $25 less. This is Southern IL, not the good black dirt part of the state, this is rolling clay and sandrock silt loam, as my dad and his buddy call it. I can't understand why people are lining up to break even or lose money on an average crop. Seems that people think big yields happen every year, how quickly we forget about 2012.
 

Clodhopper

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and now he wanted me to rent his (mined out) land

I have to assume this is why some operations can pay more, because they're mining it out. That's the M.O. of some guys, mine it and move on.
 

farmerjan

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Just lost a pasture & hayfield rent to someone who offered the landlady an outrageous price. Been there over 10 years, never more than a handshake agreement. The pasture was a great place to run 20 heifers for summer grazing, put a bull with them and they grew great. They are going to grow corn there. Hayfield has been in hay for over 20 years and was pretty poor when we got it. Have fertilized, done soil samples, sprayed for some weeds and gotten it in good shape. Lot of rock and ledge. The pasture is side hill, with lots of rock and steep, we have been slowly reclaiming that which we can get on to bushhog and spray a bit every year. After being shocked, we just said go right ahead. We are tired of years of doing for the landowner, and also helping do alot of little things as neighborly gestures. If she had even come and said, that she needed more rent, or anything it wouldn't have been such a kick in the butt.... In a few years, if she doesn't sell since her husband passed away, she will come back and practically beg us to take it back - it has happened several times at different places - and we have basically said no to most. Did take back 2 different places and pay no rent due to the amount of work it is taking to try to get the places reproductive again. Unless we have at least a 5 year agreement now, we do what we have to, to maintain it in decent shape, but no more "taking care of it as it should be"; no more extras.
Couple of years ago lost another place as they said we didn't get it cut soon enough - partially true we were late that year - and we didn't get the round bales moved soon enough...etc and so on. So the real estate agent/caretaker agreement got someone else to do the hay. Didn't pasture the other part, only cut the hay once, we cut twice, didn't do any of the bushhogging we did.... Now it's been sold again, and a friend came and asked if we would be interested in it again as the new owners are looking for someone to come in and cut the hay and use the pasture. We are thinking about it because it backs up to another place we rent and used to "rotate" the grazing back and forth. But the fences are probably all on the ground in the woods, pasture is grown up and getting weedy and trash brush growing in it, and the hay ground has all kinds of blackberries and such in it....don't know if it will be worth it. Will wait to see if the new owners contact us, the friend was going to give them our number. We have so many of these "landlord" types that buy 10 to 50 acre "estates" and then want someone else to do all their work for them and keep a "country estate" to come out to. If they want rent then probably not....
 

Stocker Steve

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Clodhopper":2o983ta3 said:
I've heard of big operators giving up some of their overpriced rent ground ($225/A) just to have someone snatch it up at $25 less. This is Southern IL, not the good black dirt part of the state


We had a big crop here - - corn still lost money and soybeans made a little. I made money on oats because we had a bumper crop of straw.

You should not swing at every pitch, and poorer ground is often overpriced. Is the good dirt cash flowing in IL?
 

Clodhopper

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Stocker Steve":otjc16s9 said:
Clodhopper":otjc16s9 said:
I've heard of big operators giving up some of their overpriced rent ground ($225/A) just to have someone snatch it up at $25 less. This is Southern IL, not the good black dirt part of the state


We had a big crop here - - corn still lost money and soybeans made a little. I made money on oats because we had a bumper crop of straw.
We were the same, corn breakeven or loss, beans making some money. The ground type of ground I farm, you either need a big crop or big price to make money with corn. For more than one reason, beans are a more steady money maker year in, year out. Beans are the guy that hits .350 with little power, corn is the .250 home run hitter.
You should not swing at every pitch, and poorer ground is often overpriced. Is the good dirt cash flowing in IL?
I'm not around any of the prime ground, but from what I read, the rents on the black dirt are high enough to eat most of the huge yields away. The plus on those soils is that they will handle the adverse weather better than ours. All our good ground is flood ground (still not Central IL caliber, but above average) or pretty droughthy. The hill years drown out the bottoms, and the bottoms years burn up the hills, most generally.
 

jkwilson

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When corn prices got so high, we lost our rental ground because paying what grain farmers were paying didn't pencil out close to good for cow calf or hay. It probably didn't pencil for row crops either, but everybody had the fever. Cut way back on our operation.

Two years ago the neighbor asked if we'd be interested in pasturing her place again. Corners were grown up, fences were a mess, woods was full of down trees. She was tired of the mess and not being able to see her pond when the field was in corn.

I told her it would probably be two years before I could pay her to rent the place with the cost of seeding it back to pasture and the work the fences needed. She is handicapped and can't do any of the maintenance and my rent offers before always considered the work I had to do.

Last year I probably got a little more out of it than I'd put in. I painted one of her gates when I did mine, and she was so happy not to see the rust anymore she called to thank me because the place looks so much nicer. The grain operation didn't do all the little things I'd been doing to keep the place up.

Some people want their land to be cared for rather than squeezing every nickel out of it. If you can find and cultivate those people who live on the land, you may have success. The bigger entities who see the land only as a source of cash are playing a game most of us can't play.
 

Stocker Steve

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jkwilson":1kqrcmoy said:
Some people want their land to be cared for rather than squeezing every nickel out of it. If you can find and cultivate those people who live on the land, you may have success. The bigger entities who see the land only as a source of cash are playing a game most of us can't play.

2X
 

callmefence

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Son of Butch":26ozdj0j said:
No Rest Farm":26ozdj0j said:
I wish I could find land to rent in my area. Any ideas on how to find pasture to rent?
Over pay.

My work puts me in contact with lot's of landowners, and has opened the door for several leases.
Around here anyway, reputation trumps price.
Folks are mainly looking to maintain their tax exemption. They want someone they know and can trust. If you ever get a lease, treat the landlord like a customer. Work to please and watch the doors open
 

skyhightree1

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farmerjan said:
Just lost a pasture & hayfield rent to someone who offered the landlady an outrageous price. quote]

I am sorry I didn't know it was you renting that piece of land :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:
 

Stocker Steve

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callmefence":3bk74ytj said:
Around here anyway, reputation trumps price.

Around here, with many more hunters and tractor jockeys than cattlemen, the drivers are:
1) deer only, no people required
2) price, mineral mining OK
3) location, near neighbors only, here rep counts a little

Farm taxes and expectations are both low here. Most "landlords" are clueless and fewer really care. I asked one cheap bastard, who had inherited a place, why he would not even cost share on material to maintain it. He said "I want to squeeze as much out of it as I can".

The only economical way to really build back some of this run down ground is with cattle, and that requires a lot of work. Otherwise the landlord stands in line for CRP with his hand out...
 

True Grit Farms

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The counties really need to do something about agriculture exemptions on smaller parcels, it really affects the counties tax base. Maybe like a income related deal off the property? IDK But it sure is nice paying taxes on ag land and then selling it as residential or commercial property down the road. Almost feels like I'm cheating the government. But if the government didn't waste so much money, paying taxes wouldn't hurt as much. Impact fees are a big thing in Florida and can cost some major money.
 

farmerjan

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skyhightree1":358i0e4p said:
farmerjan":358i0e4p said:
Just lost a pasture & hayfield rent to someone who offered the landlady an outrageous price. quote]

I am sorry I didn't know it was you renting that piece of land :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:

Oh REALLY :bs: :bs: I know that you knew it.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :mad: :mad: :mad:

You know, I am to the point that I don't care so much about it. I'm hoping that it may just make us a little more efficient and when something like this happens, we usually have something else fall in our lap.
Michael did talk to the owner directly yesterday, since it was a co-rent with the other guy who originally had it; and to make sure that it wasn't anything we did/didn't do. Turns out she has been fed quite a bit of "how much this new person is willing to do" and she is not at all mad or upset with us. She thinks this new person will be really helping her with the costs of the hay that her horses need; because for 40 years her husband did all the finances and now she is having to cope and it is financially draining her. Michael laid out alot of facts for her, about what she said the guy is saying he will do, what she thinks she will be getting out of it, and the costs that this new person will be incurring and what it will cost to get the land reseeded in the orchard grass that she needs for her horse hay. And he told her to talk to the county extension agent and the co-op to check on what he is telling her; the costs of all of it, so that she can see that we are not screwing her over or feeding her a line of bull. I think she is really thinking about it, and Michael said that he hates to see her get taken for a ride, even if we do lose it, because they have been very good to us over the years and it isn't right that she may be getting screwed over. One thing he did tell her is that if nothing else, to make sure she gets it all in writing, because she will have no legal recourse if she doesn't, and if they don't do what they say. If what she says is true, they are playing her for a dumb old lady and she will get very screwed over. We have no money in it, and it is only a yearly thing for us but we had it for a long time. And she is a nice person, and a recent widow, and both of us hate to see her get used....by anyone.
 

farmerjan

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In Va, the "land use" tax break, has to be able to show that the place is being farmed by a farmer that does a schedule F on taxes, and I am pretty sure the farmer has to show a minimum of 1,000 in income. Plus, if it gets sold for residential or development, there are some rules about having to pay back taxes for like 5 years or something like that. It has to do with not being able to take advantage of the tax break, and I am not real sure of all the details....but do know that there are some rules to it. So the tax break really does help the older retired people, but then all the ones that come in and buy the 5-20-50 acre "estates" get the benefits; at least for awhile. We actually had one that refused the land use reduction because they are not sure what they are going to do with it in the next few years and don't want to have to pay back taxes in case. We are still making hay off it, and it is just a year to year thing but that is okay.
 
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