Renting ground for hay production

[uplandnut]

Have you looked into doing corn silage? A lot of big dairies here are going to that instead of so much hay, they're claiming they get more tonnage out of it? I know cows that are on it seem to end up fat and have larger calves, more potential to calving complications do to the weight though.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Same here: Dairies go out. Some dairymen sell hay for a couple years and then fully exit. High ground goes to row crop. Some meadows are not harvested due to an increase in big rain events. Hay gets scarce.

Options:
- BTOs have gone to TMR mixes. Some are commodity based, others are corn silage based. Labor and scale are issues.
- Buy corn silage and feed it w/ an old silage box that has the roof cut off. Labor is an issue.
- Supplement hay with a DDG/Corn mix. Labor is an issue
- Go seasonal to reduce or eliminate overwintering cows. Marketing skill is an issue.
- Reduce stocking rate and increase forage stockpiling. Makes alot of cents with current calf prices.
- Rent hay ground. Current hay prices are high enought that this is a money maker. But not sure you can afford to feed it...

I have tried everyting but the TMR.

 

[BFE]

I don't know that it will work where you're at but here there is a lot of winter wheat/cereal rye/triticale made into hay and soybeans double cropped behind. Normally the hay comes off before June 1, so we basically get a full season crop plus a full hay crop. I prefer the triticale, makes nearly the same as rye but cows like it better. It is pricey though, compared to buying rye or wheat.

 

[ddd75]

i planted around 3 acres of dwarf sudan right into a existing pasture and got somewhere around 50 rolls.. 4x4's.

You just burned the pasture down with glyphosate and no till drilled it in? I have lost a few acres to broomsedge, and had contemplated going in with dwarf Sudan. I figure for what it would cost to turn under, fertilize, lime, and reseed that the same amount spent on a Sudan crop in the same place would yield more. I haven't gotten past the reading about dwarf Sudan though. I think if they named it something different, it'd be grown all over.

this was on a ridge where I unrolled probably 80+ bales.. I put down about 50 lb ac of coated urea. I didn't get the last cutting I just gave it to the cows . I wanted to see how tall it would get.. It was about 4' tall in some spots and over 6' tall in others.

 

[callmefence]

If it's all gone to row crop I would be looking at crop residue. Milo regrowth can make pretty fair hay. We've also fed corn fodder. They run the baler behind the combine ( no cutting the stalks)and the cows eat it just fine. Just have to supplement a little.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Lucky what if any damage are they doing to their pasture?
Are they running on native or improved?
I'm a grass farmer I don't want to go through the 11 reconditioning every year.

 

[Silver]

Can you rent pasture and hay your own ground?

 

[Bigfoot]

Can you rent pasture and hay your own ground?

Naw, zero pasture to rent. I'm leaning now, to converting my hay ground to dwarf sudan.

 

[littletom]

What about wheat in fall then cutting and wrapping it in may, then doing millet or sudan grass. Get the most off rented ground.

 

[Bigfoot]

What about wheat in fall then cutting and wrapping it in may, then doing millet or sudan grass. Get the most off rented ground.

thinking forage oat, and dwarf sudangrass

 

[Lucky]

Lucky what if any damage are they doing to their pasture?
Are they running on native or improved?
I'm a grass farmer I don't want to go through the 11 reconditioning every year.

The bigger guys have a lower stocking rate so usually have enough room for everything to grow back in the spring. I wonder about the smaller guys though. If it's not a good spring the grass has a harder time getting a jump start when grazed so low. My cows pretty much live on about 80 acres all winter because I feed good hay. They fill up then just hang out all day.

 

[Stocker Steve]

One thing to think about, especially if hay is high priced, is are you better off at a lower cow stocking rate?
You could buy less hay, and/or make more hay, and/or run more yearlings.
Ideally, you would sell the yearlings after the spring flush and then start to stockpile standing feed for the winter.

 

[Lucky]

One thing to think about, especially if hay is high priced, is are you better off at a lower cow stocking rate?
You could buy less hay, and/or make more hay, and/or run more yearlings.
Ideally, you would sell the yearlings after the spring flush and then start to stockpile standing feed for the winter.

Many years ago when hay prices started going up is when I realized that to make it a man needed to wean his calves for 45-60 days to make things pencil out. Hay prices took a jump again a few years ago and I realized that I needed to keep calves longer than 60 days to pencil out. The problem I see with doing yearlings for most people is money. It's hard to convince a man that only thinks about how much his feed bill is that he needs to spend more on feed and keep calves longer to make more. Now try and talk him into buying a couple truck loads to put on feed. You could run them on straight grass but I think you would be disappointed at the rate of gain. At least in my area, others my have different experiences.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Fall grass here is washy. Hard to get good gains with weanlings on it. What would happen if you reduced your cow stocking rate, and held cows w/ calves longer on pasture?

 

[BFE]

One thing to think about, especially if hay is high priced, is are you better off at a lower cow stocking rate?
You could buy less hay, and/or make more hay, and/or run more yearlings.
Ideally, you would sell the yearlings after the spring flush and then start to stockpile standing feed for the winter.

Many years ago when hay prices started going up is when I realized that to make it a man needed to wean his calves for 45-60 days to make things pencil out. Hay prices took a jump again a few years ago and I realized that I needed to keep calves longer than 60 days to pencil out. The problem I see with doing yearlings for most people is money. It's hard to convince a man that only thinks about how much his feed bill is that he needs to spend more on feed and keep calves longer to make more. Now try and talk him into buying a couple truck loads to put on feed. You could run them on straight grass but I think you would be disappointed at the rate of gain. At least in my area, others my have different experiences.

Another problem with yearlings is when you run into years like this one when the 7-8 weight cattle are bring very little more per head than 5 weights.
http://greenvillelivestockauction.com/market-report-98/

 

[Stocker Steve]

The yearling market here is very very seasonal. They need to be gone by Labor Day, to a feedlot locking in the seasonal kill price during February/March/April. Common yearlings brought $1.31 here last fall and had an excellent value of gain. That said, holding cattle is not so great during the declining price part of the cattle cycle. There are ways to manage equity during this phase - - LRP, and sell/buy marketing, are mentioned most often.

One of the things adjustments we are making due to the increasing scarcity of inexpensive hay is to reduce the cow numbers about 15% per year, and increasing yearlings accordingly. Could even have a pretty cow herd at some point. ;-)

I think most cow/calf producers are overstocked in this area. I know I am. If you tweak cow size down, tweak % of cows in the herd down, and increase stockpiling - - you can quickly reach a point where your winter hay usage is about half of what it was. So potentially more of an optimum, not a maximum, number of calves produced per acre per year.

 

[Lucky]

One thing to think about, especially if hay is high priced, is are you better off at a lower cow stocking rate?
You could buy less hay, and/or make more hay, and/or run more yearlings.
Ideally, you would sell the yearlings after the spring flush and then start to stockpile standing feed for the winter.

Many years ago when hay prices started going up is when I realized that to make it a man needed to wean his calves for 45-60 days to make things pencil out. Hay prices took a jump again a few years ago and I realized that I needed to keep calves longer than 60 days to pencil out. The problem I see with doing yearlings for most people is money. It's hard to convince a man that only thinks about how much his feed bill is that he needs to spend more on feed and keep calves longer to make more. Now try and talk him into buying a couple truck loads to put on feed. You could run them on straight grass but I think you would be disappointed at the rate of gain. At least in my area, others my have different experiences.

Another problem with yearlings is when you run into years like this one when the 7-8 weight cattle are bring very little more per head than 5 weights.
http://greenvillelivestockauction.com/market-report-98/

Funny you bring that up. We were talking about buying a truckload of 5 weights a couple days ago and selling them at 750. Figured if feeding some already what's another set of troughs. I looked up the El Reno market report and I think the money difference was $98. Can't make money like that. Never know about market swings though.