Red vs. Black

[Mark Reynolds]

I know "Certified Black Angus" gets a premium, but does it produce the biggest profit per pound of beef sold? There is a whole lot that goes into coat of production. Efficiency is a factor that comes to mind. It looks like Red has Black beat in that catagory.

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjas-2014-0161

 

[Travlr]

I know "Certified Black Angus" gets a premium, but does it produce the biggest profit per pound of beef sold? There is a whole lot that goes into coat of production. Efficiency is a factor that comes to mind. It looks like Red has Black beat in that catagory.

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/10.1139/cjas-2014-0161

Me... I like all cattle. It doesn't matter what color as long as they are GOOD cattle. I believe in having good cattle and breeding them to be better. Genetics does what expensive feed and extra care does, but it's easier.
But CAB is an affront to the cattle industry and damaging to the animals of the future. There is no two ways about it. A great marketing scheme with no real value, and some serious downsides.
That said, crossbred cattle are healthier and more fertile, and black hides sell for more than any other colors. So red or black crossbred cows are a moot point as long as you have a bull that throws solid black calves.
Down south I think we are seeing a lot of evidence that dark cattle don't do as well in heat as lighter cattle... and frankly I'm surprised more people don't seem to do anything about it. I know there are other countries where this plays a part in their herd building.
As far as profit. Yes black calves sell for more money regardless of quality. It takes the same inputs to raise any color of calf... except for the cost of the animals putting the black hide on the calf. Strictly speaking, weighing all the numbers, I'd say red cows with a homozygous black bull makes more money.

 

[Dave]

A black baldie will sell right with or even more than a straight black calf. And there are certainly regional differences. Red Angus and Charolais cross calves will sell right with black calves here. A couple years ago I was sitting at the sale when B sold several hundred calves. The vast majority were Char crosses with some Angus calves tossed in. They sold in groups sorted by sex and size. Not by color. All of them topped the market that day.

 

[kenny thomas]

I feel for pure profit it would be hard to beat a red cow and a Charolais bull.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I feel for pure profit it would be hard to beat a red cow and a Charolais bull.

How's about a yellow Limo/Char/Sim/Angus bull? That could be fun.

 

[Texas Ranch Hand]

Me... I like all cattle. It doesn't matter what color as long as they are GOOD cattle. I believe in having good cattle and breeding them to be better. Genetics does what expensive feed and extra care does, but it's easier.
But CAB is an affront to the cattle industry and damaging to the animals of the future. There is no two ways about it. A great marketing scheme with no real value, and some serious downsides.
That said, crossbred cattle are healthier and more fertile, and black hides sell for more than any other colors. So red or black crossbred cows are a moot point as long as you have a bull that throws solid black calves.
Down south I think we are seeing a lot of evidence that dark cattle don't do as well in heat as lighter cattle... and frankly I'm surprised more people don't seem to do anything about it. I know there are other countries where this plays a part in their herd building.
As far as profit. Yes black calves sell for more money regardless of quality. It takes the same inputs to raise any color of calf... except for the cost of the animals putting the black hide on the calf. Strictly speaking, weighing all the numbers, I'd say red cows with a homozygous black bull makes more money.

I run black and red angus. On a hot day the black ones are in the shade. The red ones are grazing

 

[Warren Allison]

I feel for pure profit it would be hard to beat a red cow and a Charolais bull.

Breeding that same cow to a homo for black and polled Simm, will yield a calf the same size that would sell for more money per pound.

I have seen calves this year, at 3 different places, all sired by homo for red Char bulls, out of Black Simm, Chi-Angus, and Brangus cows, respectively. Have seen other 1/2 Char calves that grew as good as these, but these calves are all black, so will bring more than a smoky or yellow 1/2 Char will. Two of these guys had bought red Char bulls, and they really weren't that much more expensive than a similar quality registered dilute Char cost. The other AIs his cows, and the red Char semen is no more per straw than dilute Char semen.

 

[Big Creek]

I have black, red and, white cattle. All my black cattle carry a larger fly load than the whites and reds, or at least that’s been my observation for years.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I run black and red angus. On a hot day the black ones are in the shade. The red ones are grazing

I have the same observation. But when they and their calves go across the scales there doesn't seem to be any correlation to observing them graze and their weights.

 

[Brute 23]

The article is interesting but it doesn't change how a lot of get paid.

We have long seen the discrepancies between studies like this and what actually happens at the sale. It's like rat tails. No matter how many studies say it has no effect on feeding the cattle out they still take a significant hit.

That's why I prefer home raised red cattle. I know and control what it costs to operate them year and year out. With in a very short time I can have what ever flavor of calf the market wants from year to year. Red white, and black bulls all work on red cows and will all put you on the top end of the market.

Grey cows will too but that's a whole different game.

 

[wbvs58]

I see that study floored right at the start. It says they were from a single source, not truly representative of a breed just the one breeders animals.

Ken

 

[coachg]

Think this horse has been beat before ? I know the argument about black cows standing in the shade and reds out grazing. We have 15 registered, not that it matters , polled Herefords . They stay in the pond as much or worse than my angus cows ! I’m of the belief that good cattle beat bad cattle every day , no matter their color . It may not be fair but at our markets black hides bring more money . I’m like Forrest Gump , I’m not a smart man , but I know I’m raising the type calf/ color etc that brings me the most money . You do what’s best for you .

 

[Warren Allison]

Think this horse has been beat before ? I know the argument about black cows standing in the shade and reds out grazing. We have 15 registered, not that it matters , polled Herefords . They stay in the pond as much or worse than my angus cows ! I'm of the belief that good cattle beat bad cattle every day , no matter their color . It may not be fair but at our markets black hides bring more money . I'm like Forrest Gump , I'm not a smart man , but I know I'm raising the type calf/ color etc that brings me the most money . You do what's best for you .

I concur!! Who gives a red rat's a$$ if a cow isn't out in the middle of a pasture. , eating in the noon day sun?!!! They have all night, early morning, and late evening to do their eating.... and they do. Just like our amigos south of the border...nothing wrong with a noon time siesta in the shade! I like to lie in the shade or get in the water myself when it is hot! And no one has ever accused me of not eating enough! Wonder how Cape buffalo get so big, laying in the water and the shade during the heat of the day?

 

[Brute 23]

I concur!! Who gives a red rat's a$$ if a cow isn't out in the middle of a pasture. , eating in the noon day sun?!!! They have all night, early morning, and late evening to do their eating.... and they do. Just like our amigos south of the border...nothing wrong with a noon time siesta in the shade! I like to lie in the shade or get in the water myself when it is hot! And no one has ever accused me of not eating enough! Wonder how Cape buffalo get so big, if they lay in the water and the shade during the heat of the day?

It goes toward efficiencies for people in the cattle business. Yes both may survive, but one may cost more to operate that the other.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

It goes toward efficiencies for people in the cattle business. Yes both may survive, but one may cost more to operate that the other.

Curious how do you measure that cost to operate on a red vs black animal?

 

[Brute 23]

Curious how do you measure that cost to operate on a red vs black animal?

Cow body condition, calf condition, and special accommodations.

As an example, people can down play the fly and parasite deal but it's expensive to manage flies with our long warm season.

I already mentioned the flexibility breeding red vs black.

There can be price differences at initial purchase.

Even the grazing deal. It's easy to say they will graze at night, and they will. Like I said, they will survive. The 1/8 Brahman black cattle will be panting in the shade all sumer long. You have a very short window to move them or work them. They don't travel like like 1/8 Brahman red cattle during those months. In good years, it may not show, in tough years or properties they have to travel, it matters.

I don't know how it is up north. Here you can see there are quite a few accommodations that have to be made for the black hides. I like those 1/4 baldies or even 1/8 black cows but they go to specific places, generally smaller, with good soil, water, shade, etc. The bigger, sandy, rougher places get red cattle.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Up here we don't have nearly the heat that you guys down south do (but last week it did hit 90 for 4 days and im ready for winter again) but our flys are as bad as anywhere, often you cant be outside without getting eaten, our beach is unusable from may-august unless its windy. As I said somewhere on here I haven't noticed Flys worse on black vs red it's more so individual animals, so all cattle have to get the same fly treatment regardless of color. I do notice black hides laying in the shade more but the scales and eyeballs don't lie and at the end of the summer there isn't a difference in weights red vs black.

I dont like heat so I don't work anything in the heat of the day so that's a non-issue for me. It also gets light before 5am and is light till after 11pm so there's lots of hours to do things in the summer that aren't in the beating sun.

So there's no special accommodations that need to be made to get a hide color that fetches a premium here in the north.

I've got about a 60/40 black/red split and don't manage them any different.

 

[chaded]

All of my cows are red angus now but they like the shade and water just as much as any black cattle I have owned.

 

[Brute 23]

Ya the 90s is still nice weather for us. I'll be driving around with the windows down. All the cattle will graze through the daylight at those temps.

What really separates the weather is the nights. When I was out in WTX it got 110 or what ever but it was from like 2-4pm. The mornings and evening were still real nice. If you found any shade there was a huge temp difference. Even in like Waco, it cools off a lot more when it's not mid day.

It's not like that here come July and Aug. You are over a 100, with humidity, and you will dip in to the 80s from like 2am to 5am. It can be like 92 degrees at 10pm. Even the wind can just feel like a blow dryer on your face so although the shade is nice, it only provides a little relief.

That is when it gets hard on every one, when even those mornings, evenings, and nights don't really cool off that much.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

There's a reason I stay where it snowed yesterday and frost every morning this week. Haha

Last week it was 91 at 11pm and since very few have AC sleeping was miserable. That few hot days made me consider moving farther north.