read post on bottle feeding---need help

[rockridgecattle]

Hi everyone,
We have had three sets of twins this year. For our own reasons we have pulled one twin from each cow and bottle feed. We knew the expense they would be when we started this little drama.
DOB
1. 06/03/2006 80# 1.5 bottles 2x a day
2. 10/03/2006 80# 1.5-1.75 bottles 2x a day
3. 24/03/2006 70 -75# 1.75 -2 bottles 2x a day
I knew this would be expensive but a bag a week... :shock: their pigs.
we have them on this calf ration for baby calves (dairy ration--feed rite) it has corn, pellets etc.
We try to give them about 2 500g sour cream containers 2x day. Sometimes they eat it and sometimes they don't so that is why we haven't upped the amount.
They also eat free choice hay (we give them 2-3 sections of a small squarre bale 2x a day) and access to water and mineral and salt.
They eat some of the hay then what is left goes to the cows that just calved becasue they are close at hand and the bottle babies get fresh hay.
Am i giving them to much milk? I've replaced the nipples on the bottles cause they expanded the openning real big...gotta tell you that did not impress them :x
Help would be great.
Tammy

 

[Beefy]

no i htink they were born in march of 2007..

 

[msscamp]

Tammy I'm having a little trouble deciphering the DOB dates - are you saying these calves were born in March of 2006, and you're still bottle feeding them? Or is the last date a typo?

 

[Beefy]

if they were born in march of 2006, then yes, you ARE giving them too much milk.

 

[msscamp]

Sorry, Beefy - I must have deleted my first response while you were typing.

 

[Beefy]

Sorry, Beefy - I must have deleted my first response while you were typing.

thats ok, i'm nonsensical all the time. no one will ever notice.

 

[rockridgecattle]

it's late and i'm not firing on all cylinders. 2007 for sure

 

[msscamp]

Sorry, Beefy - I must have deleted my first response while you were typing.

thats ok, i'm nonsensical all the time. no one will ever notice.

I did. :lol:

Rockridge, don't feel like the Lone Ranger! Back to the calves - no, you're not giving them too much milk. They should be getting at least a gallon of milk replacer per day.

 

[Beefy]

Rockranger, its all good- i was trying to figure out what month 24 symbolized for the longest while...

 

[Beefy]

Rockranger, its all good- i was trying to figure out what month 24 symbolized for the longest while...

and your name is not rockranger, so its time for me to go to bed now. signing off-

 

[rockridgecattle]

i'm off to bed but you said atleast 1 gallon a day. at 2L bottle x2 is a gallon just in the am for the youngest...to much?

 

[msscamp]

i'm off to bed but you said atleast 1 gallon a day. at 2L bottle x2 is a gallon just in the am for the youngest...to much?

If I remember correctly, 1 liter is roughly a quart - so a 2 liter bottle would be a right around a half gallon. You're talking about feeding the youngest calf roughly 2 gallons per day if my translation is correct. No, I personally don't think it's to much. I routinely feed my bottle calves 2 gallons/day, because it makes them do better. The only thing I would suggest is to break it up into 3 feedings per day, if possible. That way the calf doesn't go so long between feedings, and doesn't get as hungry for the milk.

PS I think I just repeated a lot of what you said. Sorry about that, I'm not firing on all cyclinders either.

 

[dun]

Bottle calves particularly when be fed replacer, are generally weaned at 7-8 weeks. Unless these calves are in the 200 lb range, why are you feeding them more then the usual 1 bottle twice a day?

dun

 

[msscamp]

Bottle calves particularly when be fed replacer, are generally weaned at 7-8 weeks.

Why? The biggest reason is because it's cheaper for the owner/raiser to do that. No one would even think of weaning a calf on his mother at that age, so why would you do it with a bottle calf? Milk replacer is just that - replacer. It's not nearly as good, so why do people give less of it for a shorter period of time? I do not understand that reasoning, especially when the results of that approach are borne out with a smaller, pot-bellied calf time after time. Plus, to further complicate the issue, a bottle calf usually does not have another animal to teach him how to eat solid food, so he is slower to start eating grain, which results in him depending on the milk even more for simple nutrition.

Unless these calves are in the 200 lb range, why are you feeding them more then the usual 1 bottle twice a day?

Because they do better with more milk - plain and simple. I tried it the traditional way, didn't like the results, and started rethinking my methods for ways to make it better. I modified my approach to emulate nature as much as possible. I cannot keep a calf on milk replacer for 6 months, but I can increase the amount and extend the length of time because it gives me a better calf in the end that brings a better price. I have the utmost respect for you, and there are very, very few things I disagree with you on - but raising bottle calves is one thing I do disagree with you on for the reasons stated. Back to you for rebuttle.

dun

 

[dun]

Bottle calves particularly when be fed replacer, are generally weaned at 7-8 weeks.

Why? The biggest reason is because it's cheaper for the owner/raiser to do that. No one would even think of weaning a calf on his mother at that age, so why would you do it with a bottle calf? Milk replacer is just that - replacer. It's not nearly as good, so why do people give less of it for a shorter period of time? I do not understand that reasoning, especially when the results of that approach are borne out with a smaller, pot-bellied calf time after time. Plus, to further complicate the issue, a bottle calf usually does not have another animal to teach him how to eat solid food, so he is slower to start eating grain, which results in him depending on the milk even more for simple nutrition.

Unless these calves are in the 200 lb range, why are you feeding them more then the usual 1 bottle twice a day?

Because they do better with more milk - plain and simple. I tried it the traditional way, didn't like the results, and started rethinking my methods for ways to make it better. I modified my approach to emulate nature as much as possible. I cannot keep a calf on milk replacer for 6 months, but I can increase the amount and extend the length of time because it gives me a better calf in the end that brings a better price. I have the utmost respect for you, and there are very, very few things I disagree with you on - but raising bottle calves is one thing I do disagree with you on for the reasons stated. Back to you for rebuttle.

dun

As long as the calf is eating grain and it is kept on grain the results fomr bottle feeding and weaning at 7-8 weeks will produce just as good a calf as a calf nursing the cow.
Dairys have been doing it for years and at well managed dairys you never see the potty sorry looking calves that you see from most people that don;t raise bottle calves as a regular thing. If a calf on it's mother was feed the grain that is required for a properly raised bottle calf there would be no reason to leave it on the cow except that it's cheaper that way.
The important part is adequate nutrition for the calf to grow properly. Wether it's from a cow for 205 days or a sack for 7-8 weeks, the nutrition to grow peoperly is the element that is most often neglected. I have a neighbor that raises his calves on the cow and they're the sorriest bunch of pot gutted calves I've seen in a long time. The cows don;t milk enough to raise a decent mouse and the pasture is grazed to the dirt.

dun

 

[KNERSIE]

From my experience when I used to raise bottle calves for a living, you have to judge with your eye when a bottle calf is ready to be weaned rather than a magical number. I tried the 50 days milk then wean strategy that is so popular in dairies, but found that very few calves really take off and grow then.

What i found worked best, is continue with the 2l in the morning 2l in the evening regime untill their coat gets shiny from the calf starter/concentrates/grain mix or whatever you feed. For most calves its about 7-8 weeks, some shorter, but there will also be those that isn't ready by then. Once they reach this point, quit with one of the feedings and bottle feed 2l once a day, if you decide to feed morning only, stick to it, you can't change your mind as it is a recipe for scours. At this point you can add a sachet of Rumix to the milk replacer to help with its apetite to eat more of the ration.

Continue feeding once a day for about 2 weeks before taking the milk away completely. If you have about a 16-18% ration adlib and good quality free choice hay, your bottle calves will outgrow the bottom half of your suckling calves at 7 months of age. It is more expensive, but worth it. A stunted potbellied calf seldom developes into a keeper.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Thanks for your help. i would like these calves to grow nice. (doesn't everyone) I would like to keep two of them as replacements. the other is a steer and he looks like his twin on pasture.
The one heifer twin had a brother he was black brockle and she red...will that make a good replacement...duuno?
the other heiffer is not really a twin. A cow calved and a heiffer was in the process of calving. The heifer claimed the cow's calf. The hiefer had looked like she had calved and the cow had no signs that she had calved yet so my husband put them both in the barn in their own pen. The cow wanted that calf too. but my husband thought she was just being stupid. It was cold and dark and late that night. An hour later my husband went to check on the cow 'cause he thought she hadn't yet calved. got a shock :shock: . The heifer calved her own calf, and the cow calved her own calf, the heiffer did not want her calf and the cow wanted the heiffer's calf..are you confused yet? I know i am. So in the end the twin we are feeding is not actually a twin and the heifer and cow split the twins.
So the not really twin...harriet will make a good replacement and the not identical twin...daisy not so sure.
Any how that's our confused plan for these three hooligans.

 

[KNERSIE]

The one heifer twin had a brother he was black brockle and she red...will that make a good replacement...duuno?

No, she is most likely (90% chance) a freemartin and will never breed.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Bottle calves particularly when be fed replacer, are generally weaned at 7-8 weeks.

Why? The biggest reason is because it's cheaper for the owner/raiser to do that. No one would even think of weaning a calf on his mother at that age, so why would you do it with a bottle calf? Milk replacer is just that - replacer. It's not nearly as good, so why do people give less of it for a shorter period of time? I do not understand that reasoning, especially when the results of that approach are borne out with a smaller, pot-bellied calf time after time. Plus, to further complicate the issue, a bottle calf usually does not have another animal to teach him how to eat solid food, so he is slower to start eating grain, which results in him depending on the milk even more for simple nutrition.

Unless these calves are in the 200 lb range, why are you feeding them more then the usual 1 bottle twice a day?

Because they do better with more milk - plain and simple. I tried it the traditional way, didn't like the results, and started rethinking my methods for ways to make it better. I modified my approach to emulate nature as much as possible. I cannot keep a calf on milk replacer for 6 months, but I can increase the amount and extend the length of time because it gives me a better calf in the end that brings a better price. I have the utmost respect for you, and there are very, very few things I disagree with you on - but raising bottle calves is one thing I do disagree with you on for the reasons stated. Back to you for rebuttle.

dun

As long as the calf is eating grain and it is kept on grain the results fomr bottle feeding and weaning at 7-8 weeks will produce just as good a calf as a calf nursing the cow.
Dairys have been doing it for years and at well managed dairys you never see the potty sorry looking calves that you see from most people that don;t raise bottle calves as a regular thing. If a calf on it's mother was feed the grain that is required for a properly raised bottle calf there would be no reason to leave it on the cow except that it's cheaper that way.
The important part is adequate nutrition for the calf to grow properly. Wether it's from a cow for 205 days or a sack for 7-8 weeks, the nutrition to grow peoperly is the element that is most often neglected. I have a neighbor that raises his calves on the cow and they're the sorriest bunch of pot gutted calves I've seen in a long time. The cows don;t milk enough to raise a decent mouse and the pasture is grazed to the dirt.

dun

What the two of you are referring to as "pot bellied" or "Pot gutted" is what I have always heard referred to as "Doggied".

Those who put calves on buckets get doggied calves. We were at the sale barn last Saturday and a hispanic guy brought in a whole trailer load of doggied holsteins. Told my brother-in-law that those calves had to suck out of a bucket instead of being bottle fed. Later he went and talked to the guy :shock: Came back and said, "you're right." Those poor calves looked pitiful.

 

[rockridgecattle]

okay...i've seen "freemartin" before on this site what is it?