read post on bottle feeding---need help

[Workinonit Farm]

okay...i've seen "freemartin" before on this site what is it?

A heifer calf born with a twin bull calf.

90% of the time the heifer is sterile due to any number of reasons such as a not fully develpoed reproductive system, not all the proper repro parts inside or out, etc. While they are in utero the 'male' hormones during development play a large role as to why the heifers come out sterile. (brief and not thorough explanation).

If you really like the way this heifer grows, and looks and you want to keep her, a DNA test can be done to see if she is a freemartin. I believe the test can be done starting somewhere around 6 months, possibly 4 months old. It is an inexpensive test. This way if she is a freemartin, you're not feeding her and she's not costing you extra for no reason.

Or your vet can do an exam and they can often tell without having to do a DNA test.

Clear as mud? :lol:

Katherine

 

[milkmaid]

Bottle calves particularly when be fed replacer, are generally weaned at 7-8 weeks.

Why? The biggest reason is because it's cheaper for the owner/raiser to do that. No one would even think of weaning a calf on his mother at that age, so why would you do it with a bottle calf? Milk replacer is just that - replacer. It's not nearly as good, so why do people give less of it for a shorter period of time? I do not understand that reasoning, especially when the results of that approach are borne out with a smaller, pot-bellied calf time after time. Plus, to further complicate the issue, a bottle calf usually does not have another animal to teach him how to eat solid food, so he is slower to start eating grain, which results in him depending on the milk even more for simple nutrition.

Unless these calves are in the 200 lb range, why are you feeding them more then the usual 1 bottle twice a day?

Because they do better with more milk - plain and simple. I tried it the traditional way, didn't like the results, and started rethinking my methods for ways to make it better. I modified my approach to emulate nature as much as possible. I cannot keep a calf on milk replacer for 6 months, but I can increase the amount and extend the length of time because it gives me a better calf in the end that brings a better price. I have the utmost respect for you, and there are very, very few things I disagree with you on - but raising bottle calves is one thing I do disagree with you on for the reasons stated. Back to you for rebuttle.

dun

As long as the calf is eating grain and it is kept on grain the results fomr bottle feeding and weaning at 7-8 weeks will produce just as good a calf as a calf nursing the cow.
Dairys have been doing it for years and at well managed dairys you never see the potty sorry looking calves that you see from most people that don;t raise bottle calves as a regular thing. If a calf on it's mother was feed the grain that is required for a properly raised bottle calf there would be no reason to leave it on the cow except that it's cheaper that way.
The important part is adequate nutrition for the calf to grow properly. Wether it's from a cow for 205 days or a sack for 7-8 weeks, the nutrition to grow peoperly is the element that is most often neglected. I have a neighbor that raises his calves on the cow and they're the sorriest bunch of pot gutted calves I've seen in a long time. The cows don;t milk enough to raise a decent mouse and the pasture is grazed to the dirt.

dun

I'm with you, dun. I routinely wean mine between 6 and 8 weeks. So long as they'll eat grain, I can feed a bottle calf more, for less work, and cheaper than I can feed a combination of milk replacer and grain. My bottle calves weaned at 6-8 weeks grow every bit as good as if they'd been on a cow, and my heifer calves are routinely bred and settle between 11-13 months.

I won't raise pot bellied calves, I like my yearlings at 800lbs or more, and I can wean them at 6-8 weeks and get them there without problems.

What the two of you are referring to as "pot bellied" or "Pot gutted" is what I have always heard referred to as "Doggied".

Those who put calves on buckets get doggied calves. We were at the sale barn last Saturday and a hispanic guy brought in a whole trailer load of doggied holsteins. Told my brother-in-law that those calves had to suck out of a bucket instead of being bottle fed. Later he went and talked to the guy :shock: Came back and said, "you're right." Those poor calves looked pitiful.

Sometimes, BHB. I frequently bucket feed mine, as does the dairy I worked on, and neither I nor they had potbellied, poor-doing calves. The only times I've ever seen "bottle calves" get potbellied is when they're not getting enough nutrition (in this case, grain) or had been sick for a long period of time. I'll bet had your BIL asked how much grain/hay they were getting, it wouldn't have been much.

 

[dun]

Those who put calves on buckets get doggied calves. We were at the sale barn last Saturday and a hispanic guy brought in a whole trailer load of doggied holsteins. Told my brother-in-law that those calves had to suck out of a bucket instead of being bottle fed. Later he went and talked to the guy :shock: Came back and said, "you're right." Those poor calves looked pitiful.

Strange, most dairys raise their calves on buckets and don;t have that problem. Could it possibly be just better management? Naw, it's gotta be the bucket

dun

 

[rockridgecattle]

Just an update, due to unfortunate circumstances, daisy has a new mother today. the mother chases the calf like her own. Daisy is understandably confused after not having a bovine mother for so long.
Thank God for materity pens. The cow was fine in the pen to get the calf to suck but outside the pen she was pretty possesive.
I think once the calf gets the idea of free lunch anytime all will be well.
might not be a strong mommy baby bond we will see.
Thanks for every ones help. Might post a picture or two when all said and done.
thanks,
Tammy