Ranch employees

[Silver]

Just kicking things around. How large would cow calf operation need to be to have a full time employee. I suppose the number is different depending on how the operation is run, climate, etc.
Maybe it’s just because my wife and I are tired from a cold miserable calving season but we have been discussing the idea of full time help. Or downsizing the herd. Now that the kids are grown we probably don’t need this many cows, turns out there’s not that much glory in it. But it would be nice to not have to work 7 days a week 365 days a year.
Things to think about as we get older.

 

[Brute 23]

Before you thought you needed help was my favorite response off the podcasts.

 

[gcreekrch]

Just kicking things around. How large would cow calf operation need to be to have a full time employee. I suppose the number is different depending on how the operation is run, climate, etc.
Maybe it’s just because my wife and I are tired from a cold miserable calving season but we have been discussing the idea of full time help. Or downsizing the herd. Now that the kids are grown we probably don’t need this many cows, turns out there’s not that much glory in it. But it would be nice to not have to work 7 days a week 365 days a year.
Things to think about as we get older.

Make sure you treat them well and reward the good ones often. Allow them to have a few cows after a year with you. Makes them more diligent if they are owners themselves.

 

[Brute 23]

Make sure you treat them well and reward the good ones often. Allow them to have a few cows after a year with you. Makes them more diligent if they are owners themselves.

One of the conditions of the guy I work for is I buy in. Early on I got bonuses that were generally animals until I got a job and situated. After that if I wanted to try new things I had to buy in, even if it was a tiny portion, I had to have skin in the game and gain that perspective.

 

[Nesikep]

Just kicking things around. How large would cow calf operation need to be to have a full time employee. I suppose the number is different depending on how the operation is run, climate, etc.
Maybe it’s just because my wife and I are tired from a cold miserable calving season but we have been discussing the idea of full time help. Or downsizing the herd. Now that the kids are grown we probably don’t need this many cows, turns out there’s not that much glory in it. But it would be nice to not have to work 7 days a week 365 days a year.
Things to think about as we get older.

How much of the workload is from having many cows and how much is it from having ANY cows?

sounds like you should definitely look at least for seasonal help.. getting decent sleep during calving season really goes a long way.

There's a fellow I know that's been a ranch hand for a long time.. He's currently in the Chilcotin, but he's conservative and the ranch owners seem pretty hippie and new age, so I don't know how long that'll work.. I can connect you if you're interested and his place doesn't work out

 

[Silver]

How much of the workload is from having many cows and how much is it from having ANY cows?

sounds like you should definitely look at least for seasonal help.. getting decent sleep during calving season really goes a long way.

There's a fellow I know that's been a ranch hand for a long time.. He's currently in the Chilcotin, but he's conservative and the ranch owners seem pretty hippie and new age, so I don't know how long that'll work.. I can connect you if you're interested and his place doesn't work out

Certainly some of it is from having any cows, but more cows does make more work. So I have been wondering at what point do economics and workload intersect to justify an employee. We had a guy for a month of calving this March and it was fantastic. He is a good hand and I’m trying to decide if I should try to entice him into full time work. As mentioned above, I would sweeten the pot by allowing him to run a few cows. My thoughts are that I could pay him a bit less if he had a cow income to subsidize things.
A lot to consider, to keep a good hand is a fair financial commitment, perhaps it would be better to just downsize. But even with a downsized operation it is still a full time commitment to the ranch, and my wife and I would like the option to take a few days here and there to do some things we’ve never been able to do.

 

[Little Joe]

My opinion as a small operator, downsizing won’t give you more time. There are things that always have to be done and some at certain times more than others but have to be done whether you have 2 or 1,000. I realize more cattle make some tasks more time consuming but most tasks the number of cattle don’t really effect. Think about the number you’d have to reduce to take off a sizable workload and the income they provide and that will tell you if having those extras is worth hiring full time help.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Different but similar business when I was an owner/operator logging operation. Ran both pieces of equipment myself for a while but got burned out so hired a guy, then hired a second guy when I added another piece of equipment. It allowed me more free time, more time to run the business, more sleep, etc.

But it added a different level of stress being responsible for 2 families incomes, expecially as I got to know the employees and their wives and kids. Being small time those "employees" became like extended family. Suddenly market conditions, weather, breakdowns, etc had rippling effects outside my own household finances. At times I slept less than when I did everything 18hours a day. Ha

Ultimately I stayed in business about 1.5 years longer than I really wanted to because I wanted my employees to be provided for and find good employment before I let them go.

 

[Silver]

Different but similar business when I was an owner/operator logging operation. Ran both pieces of equipment myself for a while but got burned out so hired a guy, then hired a second guy when I added another piece of equipment. It allowed me more free time, more time to run the business, more sleep, etc.

But it added a different level of stress being responsible for 2 families incomes, expecially as I got to know the employees and their wives and kids. Being small time those "employees" became like extended family. Suddenly market conditions, weather, breakdowns, etc had rippling effects outside my own household finances. At times I slept less than when I did everything 18hours a day. Ha

Ultimately I stayed in business about 1.5 years longer than I really wanted to because I wanted my employees to be provided for and find good employment before I let them go.

Being responsible for the employee would probably be my biggest concern. It might be that if the bottom falls out of the market this place might not be able to afford hired help. I hate the thoughts of that scenario. When I was in the oil patch I used to lose sleep over who I would have to send home when work slowed down.

 

[daneg]

A few years ago I was having the same thoughts, I ended up moving the calving season from March to May and shortened it to 45 days. The herd will shrink with the abbreviated calving season but you will have a more uniform set of calves to sell. Works for me!

 

[Lucky]

I would figure the amount the hired hand would cost you and how many calves that would be. From there decide to down size that many cows or hire someone. Is there anything else the hired hand can do to take the burden off other than cows?

 

[Bob Kinford]

Just kicking things around. How large would cow calf operation need to be to have a full time employee. I suppose the number is different depending on how the operation is run, climate, etc.
Maybe it’s just because my wife and I are tired from a cold miserable calving season but we have been discussing the idea of full time help. Or downsizing the herd. Now that the kids are grown we probably don’t need this many cows, turns out there’s not that much glory in it. But it would be nice to not have to work 7 days a week 365 days a year.
Things to think about as we get older.

Maybe look at what you're doing to make so much work. Calving a couple of months later on green grass cuts labor and expenses without making a huge difference in weaning weights. Rex Ranch in Nebraska (10,000 cow outfit) cut their overall operating expenses by half making the change and only experienced a 10 pound drop in wean weights weaning on the same date.

 

[Travlr]

Just kicking things around. How large would cow calf operation need to be to have a full time employee. I suppose the number is different depending on how the operation is run, climate, etc.
Maybe it’s just because my wife and I are tired from a cold miserable calving season but we have been discussing the idea of full time help. Or downsizing the herd. Now that the kids are grown we probably don’t need this many cows, turns out there’s not that much glory in it. But it would be nice to not have to work 7 days a week 365 days a year.
Things to think about as we get older.

With a full time employee you are asking someone to work for a wage that might be similar to what they could make off the ranch. Off course there are always the perks of working with cows (wink, wink) in the great outdoors seven days a week. And I'd take less money to do that than working in a 9 to 5 job with days off.
As far as the employee having cows... maybe you could switch it up and lease your place with the condition that you could retain some cattle, and that you'd help the lessee when they needed help. Basically becoming a landlord/part time employee.
Kind of more of a partnership... but the guy leasing your ground and infrastructure is paying you for the privilege.

 

[Nesikep]

Maybe look at what you're doing to make so much work. Calving a couple of months later on green grass cuts labor and expenses without making a huge difference in weaning weights. Rex Ranch in Nebraska (10,000 cow outfit) cut their overall operating expenses by half making the change and only experienced a 10 pound drop in wean weights weaning on the same date.

it's definitely worth considering, if it helps.. but some places need the cows to be at least 1 cycle bred before range turnout, which dictates your calving season. For me I moved my calving season to start mid-february because that worked out better for pasture management and bull turn-out. Where my cows are now he starts mid march. Weather can be hit or miss in either month

 

[farmerjan]

I think for both @Silver and @gcreekrch , they have to calve in less than ideal weather, early, in order to get the calves big enough that they have a "fighting chance" with the predators they deal with... and getting calves off cows and gone before the winter sets in again... but I do not have first hand experience with their set of weather and challenges of running cows in that environment...
And there is nothing wrong in wanting to do a few things that you can now do with the family grown and on their own... Especially to be able to do it while you are still in good physical shape to go do it... Everyone waits to "retirement" to do stuff... and then health problems often get in the way....
I guess to go back and take stock of what it was costing you to run cows, what a person that helps is worth... do not base it on the extremely "high prices" we are getting now... they might last but I think they will fall some and then level out... and I agree... they have to have some "skin in the game"...
Do you have housing for someone also? What would insurance and such cost for them as opposed to them having another type job... I don't know what would be available in your area for someone to work another type of job.
If you find someone that you get along with, is TRUSTWORTHY, and does things right... sometimes they are worth their weight in gold so to speak.

 

[Rafter S]

My opinion as a small operator, downsizing won’t give you more time. . .

Not necessarily. If you move to stockers that you buy in the spring and sell in the fall you don't have to deal with calving, bulls, or hay. That eliminates a lot of headaches.

 

[farmerjan]

The guy that helped out for March calving, does he have another job??? Maybe a seasonal job that you could have him help certain times of the year and not have to have him full time??? Maybe running some cows would be a good enticement and still his not having to be totally dependent on you for full time work... You said to maybe entice him... so is he working somewhere else some of the time??? Maybe he would rather it be a part-time or seasonal job????

 

[gcreekrch]

Don’t worry about the money, better to give it to someone who wants to work than the government who is going to pizz it away. You’ll still have lots left over.

 

[Silver]

A few years ago I was having the same thoughts, I ended up moving the calving season from March to May and shortened it to 45 days. The herd will shrink with the abbreviated calving season but you will have a more uniform set of calves to sell. Works for me!

Well, I do calve in March but have been at 45 days for quite some time. But I have considered moving the calving date.

 

[Silver]

The guy that helped out for March calving, does he have another job??? Maybe a seasonal job that you could have him help certain times of the year and not have to have him full time??? Maybe running some cows would be a good enticement and still his not having to be totally dependent on you for full time work... You said to maybe entice him... so is he working somewhere else some of the time??? Maybe he would rather it be a part-time or seasonal job????

Yes, he currently is driving a truck, so like you I’m thinking that potentially he could do that during the slower times here.