Raising calm cattle

[dun]

http://beefmagazine.com/sectors/cow-cal ... lm-cattle/

 

[grannysoo]

Thanks dun.

 

[novatech]

I agree with the article with one exception. I cannot understand how one could give a score to cattle unless they gave a score to the handlers at the same time. I can work my cattle by myself, safely and in a timely manner. If I take them to the vet I get them back crazy as ----, ready to fight. It only takes one bad handler to ruin what would otherwise be a genetically docile animal.

 

[ToddFarmsInc]

I agree with the article with one exception. I cannot understand how one could give a score to cattle unless they gave a score to the handlers at the same time. I can work my cattle by myself, safely and in a timely manner. If I take them to the vet I get them back crazy as ----, ready to fight. It only takes one bad handler to ruin what would otherwise be a genetically docile animal.

Been there, done that!

My cows are pretty calm and docile for the most part. I had a couple of "kids" come and help sort off calves once. (and were never invited back again) They were employeed at a nearby beef prcessing plant working cattle pins, so I figured they knew how to handle livestock.

Nope!

In a matter of a few minutes, had my cows so wrapped up tight, they were crashing into fences, gates, and trying to sail over the pins. Not cool. I had to explain that these cows were my "pets" not stock yard animals. They were just using way to much loud noises, large exegerated gestures, and smaking them with the show sticks too much, and it was whipping my cows up into a froth.

With that said, once I got into the pin and started walking them, and talking to them, and touching them to guide them out of the gates the way they were accustom to my handeling, they settled right down. Cow's aren't completely stupid, they know the difference between different people in thier pen. :dunce:

 

[hillsdown]

The only time my cattle are freaky is when the vet is here as well, but he is gentle with them. It is only the cows as the calves are all calm, so they must remember him from the last time he was here when they got a hand up their butt and a couple needles.. :lol2:

 

[alisonb]

so they must remember him from the last time he was here when they got a hand up their butt and a couple needles..

What do you reckon their EV(exit velocity) would be??? :lol: :lol:

 

[Willow Springs]

I cannot understand how one could give a score to cattle unless they gave a score to the handlers at the same time. I can work my cattle by myself, safely and in a timely manner.

I totally agree on one hand, I have seen how poor handlers can turn it into a gong show. However, I have been in a number of herds that get very excited when another person enters the picture. The owner invariably says "that's funny I can walk right up to them and scratch them when I'm alone."

Do these cattle actually have a good temperament, or are they simply used to the person that is most often around them? I would argue that the cattle have poor temperaments that are masked by the familiarity of the owner. I have also been in herds that don't even notice strangers in the herd; those herds are actually quiet.

 

[TexasBred]

As in most things, part is hereditary and part is environmental.

 

[hillsdown]

As in most things, part is hereditary and part is environmental.

I agree as well, as there are some people that cattle just do not like no matter how calm they are. My cows are very well behaved. My fil and his buddy walked through my herd often this summer while visiting. Most of the cows just laid ,stood there but alot came up to them to sniff and snoop. BUT these two are cattlemen themselves so maybe the cows sensed it.

One of my neighbors has cattle that they cannot even control ,yet they get in with my herd ( not by my choice) and are calm as can be, I can move ,separate, pretty much do what ever wish with them, yet when they come to get them they become freaky again.. :?

It takes two to tango.. ;-)

 

[farmwriter]

I can't see it that cut and dry. We have one cow that will lick my hand and what not out in the pasture, but EVERY time we work the cows, she jumps out before she gets to the chute. Makes me furious because she's really gentle when she's not in the alley. But now she's jumped out so many times (always at the same place, except when we parked the tractor with the bucket raised in that spot - then she jumped out just to the side of her spot) I think she thinks it's what she's supposed to do. All the other cows go through just fine, even though some of them are much more stand-off-ish than she is. How do you score that?
I'd like to sell her, but Daddy... :roll: Truth be told, I don't know how the heck we'd get her on the trailer. I pray she doesn't hurt herself!
We kept her heifer from this past year, so I guess I'll have my own little nature/nurture experiment.

 

[hillsdown]

She may be claustrophobic it does happen on cattle sometimes.

I had two like that. I could AI them with them cornered off by a couple of panels and they would stand there for me, but as soon as I would try it in the corral and move them into the alleyway to the chute they became less than cooperative..it was easier to just move them into a corner and not mess around, hubby on the other hand was determined to get them in the chute after an hour or so of bs my way would have been so much better. :roll:

 

[TexasBred]

Here you go HD..we can all go study "Cattle Psychology". ;-)

Cattle Psychology

There are several factors to consider when planning a cattle handling facility. One of the most important and most overlooked is the psychology of the animal. We need to examine the way cattle perceive the world. We need to consider what frightens then and why.

SIGHT: Cattle have basically black and white vision. They have little ability to perceive depth and thus have a difficult time judging distances. They do, however, have an almost unlimited peripheral vision. Thus, they will often balk during handling if they see a moving object with their wide angle of vision. Light and dark zones, because of this black and white world, should be kept to a minimum. Loading ramps, working chutes, or crowding pens should have solid side fences to prevent animals from spooking at people, care, and other moving objects outside the facilities. This will also eliminate light and dark zebra patterns from sunlight passing through open type fencing.

FLIGHT DISTANCE: Just like people, cattle have a critical distance that they attempt to maintain between themselves and others, When you or another animal penetrates this flight zone, the animal will move away. When you move away, the animal will stop. The distance may very from 200 to 300 feet with wild range cattle to almost nothing with tame dairy cows. When attempting to move cattle you should stay on the edge of this zone, moving inside when you want the cattle to move. Because of this flight zone and vision characteristics, cattle tend to circle around the handler. Thus cattle generally move easier in a curved chute, A curved chute also has the advantage of hiding the squeeze or loading chute until the animal is partially up the chute, The animal just sees the rear of the animal ahead until it is to late to attempt to flee.

SOUND: Cattle have very good hearing, Loud and clang metal sounds scare them very easily, High frequency sounds such as the cracking of a whip actually hurts their ears, Thus, when moving cattle, gates and doors should be well lubricated and move silently

 

[hillsdown]

Here you go HD..we can all go study "Cattle Psychology". ;-)

Cattle Psychology

There are several factors to consider when planning a cattle handling facility. One of the most important and most overlooked is the psychology of the animal. We need to examine the way cattle perceive the world. We need to consider what frightens then and why.

SIGHT: Cattle have basically black and white vision. They have little ability to perceive depth and thus have a difficult time judging distances. They do, however, have an almost unlimited peripheral vision. Thus, they will often balk during handling if they see a moving object with their wide angle of vision. Light and dark zones, because of this black and white world, should be kept to a minimum. Loading ramps, working chutes, or crowding pens should have solid side fences to prevent animals from spooking at people, care, and other moving objects outside the facilities. This will also eliminate light and dark zebra patterns from sunlight passing through open type fencing.

FLIGHT DISTANCE: Just like people, cattle have a critical distance that they attempt to maintain between themselves and others, When you or another animal penetrates this flight zone, the animal will move away. When you move away, the animal will stop. The distance may very from 200 to 300 feet with wild range cattle to almost nothing with tame dairy cows. When attempting to move cattle you should stay on the edge of this zone, moving inside when you want the cattle to move. Because of this flight zone and vision characteristics, cattle tend to circle around the handler. Thus cattle generally move easier in a curved chute, A curved chute also has the advantage of hiding the squeeze or loading chute until the animal is partially up the chute, The animal just sees the rear of the animal ahead until it is to late to attempt to flee.

SOUND: Cattle have very good hearing, Loud and clang metal sounds scare them very easily, High frequency sounds such as the cracking of a whip actually hurts their ears, Thus, when moving cattle, gates and doors should be well lubricated and move silently

LMAO TB would love to live in a perfect world.
:lol2: :help:

A curved chute also has the advantage of hiding the squeeze or loading chute until the animal is partially up the chute, The animal just sees the rear of the animal ahead until it is to late to attempt to flee. Our chute is curved so that pretty much puts that to myth..

 

[Howdyjabo]

"I totally agree on one hand, I have seen how poor handlers can turn it into a gong show. However, I have been in a number of herds that get very excited when another person enters the picture. The owner invariably says "that's funny I can walk right up to them and scratch them when I'm alone."

Do these cattle actually have a good temperament, or are they simply used to the person that is most often around them? I would argue that the cattle have poor temperaments that are masked by the familiarity of the owner. I have also been in herds that don't even notice strangers in the herd; those herds are actually quiet.[/quote]


I totally agree-- if you really want to know genetically what you are throwing -talk to the people that buy your calves-- they will revert to their baser instincts.
Also I am a firm believer in "the signs"-- some days even the quietest cattle are nervy.

 

[Brute 23]

I can't see it that cut and dry. We have one cow that will lick my hand and what not out in the pasture, but EVERY time we work the cows, she jumps out before she gets to the chute. Makes me furious because she's really gentle when she's not in the alley. But now she's jumped out so many times (always at the same place, except when we parked the tractor with the bucket raised in that spot - then she jumped out just to the side of her spot) I think she thinks it's what she's supposed to do. All the other cows go through just fine, even though some of them are much more stand-off-ish than she is. How do you score that?
I'd like to sell her, but Daddy... :roll: Truth be told, I don't know how the heck we'd get her on the trailer. I pray she doesn't hurt herself!
We kept her heifer from this past year, so I guess I'll have my own little nature/nurture experiment.

Thats spoiled.

I think the majority of "bad" cattle are actually spoiled, followed by a result of their enviroment, and lastly... are actually bad.

 

[djinwa]

Interesting subject. I've been wondering why it doesn't get more attention. While it's true that environment influences docility, why should you have to overcome poor genetics?

I have a cow I've been breeding for a few years to the same bull, and one heifer was docile to the point of stupid. Would come up to you and lick your shoes. I sold her, and was thinking I'd keep one if got another one like her. Last year, got a bull calf who was wild. So figured a calm calf wasn't guaranteed. This year I was excited to get a heifer, but could tell by day 2 that she'd be wild. She'd take off when I'd approach, and if I got near, I'd run a hand down her back and she'd flinch alot and crouch down - really touchy. Quickly realized she was heading for the freezer. Despite halter training and handling daily, she's still pretty much wild. Have to be careful to not make any quick moves or she'll take off.

Probably the bull is the problem, as wild calves from different gentle cows. Ordering semen over the internet, wish there was more scoring of docility. Seems you can have a wonderful looking bull, who can ruin a herd with crazy calves. (Also can't judge udders looking at bull)

I see Pharo rates bulls on docility and udders. Don't know how reliable that is.

 

[3waycross]

I cannot understand how one could give a score to cattle unless they gave a score to the handlers at the same time. I can work my cattle by myself, safely and in a timely manner.

I totally agree on one hand, I have seen how poor handlers can turn it into a gong show. However, I have been in a number of herds that get very excited when another person enters the picture. The owner invariably says "that's funny I can walk right up to them and scratch them when I'm alone."

Do these cattle actually have a good temperament, or are they simply used to the person that is most often around them? I would argue that the cattle have poor temperaments that are masked by the familiarity of the owner. I have also been in herds that don't even notice strangers in the herd; those herds are actually quiet.

I believe you are absolutely correct about the familarity of the handler masking poor temperment. I have seen this in person a couple of times. I visited a lot of ranches 3 yrs ago looking for a RA bull, one place the cows would ignore me and another just down the road, same circumstances and, they were flighty. I acted no different on either ranch but the cattle did.

 

[novatech]

When I was a kid I worked cattle along the gulf coast. Many had not seen a human for a year. I don't seem to recall any that were not flighty. That goes for all breeds not just the ones with ear.
Cattle need to be associated with people to become docile. I do not believe in this mask theory as described. Any animal that has only been associated with only one person would have a natural distrust for others. Those animals that are associated with more people while growing up are naturally going to be more docile around strangers.
There are those individuals that are genetically hyperactive/flighty. Although, through halter breaking and/or other means of gentling, they can be broke but the genetics are still there. I guess you could say that those individuals have been masked. This type of masking is done most often with bulls. It can result in entire herds having the bad genetics. It is an important trait to recognise when choosing for bull prospects or heifer replacements.

 

[dun]

When I was a kid I worked cattle along the gulf coast. Many had not seen a human for a year. I don't seem to recall any that were not flighty. That goes for all breeds not just the ones with ear.
Cattle need to be associated with people to become docile. I do not believe in this mask theory as described. Any animal that has only been associated with only one person would have a natural distrust for others. Those animals that are associated with more people while growing up are naturally going to be more docile around strangers.
There are those individuals that are genetically hyperactive/flighty. Although, through halter breaking and/or other means of gentling, they can be broke but the genetics are still there. I guess you could say that those individuals have been masked. This type of masking is done most often with bulls. It can result in entire herds having the bad genetics. It is an important trait to recognise when choosing for bull prospects or heifer replacements.

Most people consider our cattle to be calm. If someone goes out among them without me with them the get up and keep an eye on them. If I'm along they just lay around. Gets akward when someone wants to take look at something to by and I have to go over and poke and prod them with my foot to get them to stand up then I have to keep messing with them so they'll keep moving.
But with all that, I sure prefer it to the ones you have to chase with a helicopter to be able to keep up with them.

 

[3waycross]

When I was a kid I worked cattle along the gulf coast. Many had not seen a human for a year. I don't seem to recall any that were not flighty. That goes for all breeds not just the ones with ear.
Cattle need to be associated with people to become docile. I do not believe in this mask theory as described. Any animal that has only been associated with only one person would have a natural distrust for others. Those animals that are associated with more people while growing up are naturally going to be more docile around strangers.
There are those individuals that are genetically hyperactive/flighty. Although, through halter breaking and/or other means of gentling, they can be broke but the genetics are still there. I guess you could say that those individuals have been masked. This type of masking is done most often with bulls. It can result in entire herds having the bad genetics. It is an important trait to recognise when choosing for bull prospects or heifer replacements.

Doesn't make sense. You say you disagree with the mask theory then you go ahead and prove it. Sounds like little more than a case of semantics to me :?

Try this for a demo. My old partner bought 4 registered GV's from 4 different herds after a year 2 of them could be approached like the rest of our cows (a flight zone but calm) the other two will be approached ONLY after having been shot. 3 distinctly different bloodlines and believe me much different raising. They had all been treated the same for over a year, yet they had much different temperments and for added interest the two that were flighty were off different ranchs but had similar bloodlines.