Raindance v Rainfall v President

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torogmc81

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I know it's still early, but we just had our first Raindance heifer and are definitely excited about her potential. I saw her get up and right away thought 75-80# calf. But when I picked her up to bring to lean to and weigh her, she was SOLID like a brick, weighed in at 90#. She's out of our Curtin Lady cow (7229).

I checked on Rainfall and saw his CED and BW and started thinking about him, along with his price of $35 compared to Raindance and President.

Who and what are you breeding these three to??

How real is Rainfall's CED and who does he work on?

Phenotype comparison of the three? Who stands out

What will you be breeding daughters to?

What about line breeding? We have a Resource heifer out of that same 7229 cow, that i was thinking about putting Rainfall and eventually Raindance and/or President on to stack 4136

Justin
 

CreekAngus

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I would definitely breed a Resource to Rainfall. I haven't personally seen any of the progeny, but from folks I know, President makes better bulls, Rainfall better daughters. In my personal situation I would use Rainfall, because I don't think Raindance or President are worth the extra money for the straws. You can reach out to SAV and they will give you their experience with these three. Square B has Rainfall and they are really good to talk with as is Herbster for President. I called ST Genetics about Raindance, but now they hound me all the time to buy semen.
 

LCBulls

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We don’t have any experience with Rainfall but have both President and Raindance calves.
Raindance heifers are more feminine and have are more clean fronted than our Presidents. They look to be slightly larger framed than Presidents so far.
Personally, I don’t think you can go wrong with any of that flush. But I would imagine that the growth between Raindance and President will widen over Rainfall over time. It’s almost impossible for a super low BW bull to have the performance.
I’d use Rainfall on Heifers and President/Raindance on cows according to their phenotype. President is $40 a straw and is packaged at 40 million cells per straw. Something to think about. It will add a few pregnancies.
FWIW I was told by Kelly that the best calves he’s ever seen we’re President/Raindance. But things can change.
 
OP
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torogmc81

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LCBulls said:
We don’t have any experience with Rainfall but have both President and Raindance calves.
Raindance heifers are more feminine and have are more clean fronted than our Presidents. They look to be slightly larger framed than Presidents so far.
Personally, I don’t think you can go wrong with any of that flush. But I would imagine that the growth between Raindance and President will widen over Rainfall over time. It’s almost impossible for a super low BW bull to have the performance.
I’d use Rainfall on Heifers and President/Raindance on cows according to their phenotype. President is $40 a straw and is packaged at 40 million cells per straw. Something to think about. It will add a few pregnancies.
FWIW I was told by Kelly that the best calves he’s ever seen we’re President/Raindance. But things can change.
Then my next question would be, how noticeable of a gap is there or going to be between Pres/Raindance and the Rainfalls?
 

LCBulls

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I have no idea. I think the only one that would know for sure would be Kelly Schaff and those who frequent his ranch.

I know that Rainfall has a big following.He looks to be a little bit smaller mature size, just based on the videos that have been posted. He’s definitely got really nice shape to him for a CE Heifer Bull.
 
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torogmc81

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LCBulls said:
I have no idea. I think the only one that would know for sure would be Kelly Schaff and those who frequent his ranch.

I know that Rainfall has a big following.He looks to be a little bit smaller mature size, just based on the videos that have been posted. He’s definitely got really nice shape to him for a CE Heifer Bull.

19160875

As you can see she's CED +1 BW 2.4 and CEM +0.
Are Rainfall's CED #s legit? Or I have 316, Flat Top, or Playbook to use on her this first time around.

Plus, don't know if it's a difference maker (on the calving ease by her being a few months past 15 mo.), but she's a late May, so I think i'll wait and breed her for a late Aug/early Sept first calf
 

LCBulls

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torogmc81 said:
LCBulls said:
I have no idea. I think the only one that would know for sure would be Kelly Schaff and those who frequent his ranch.

I know that Rainfall has a big following.He looks to be a little bit smaller mature size, just based on the videos that have been posted. He’s definitely got really nice shape to him for a CE Heifer Bull.

19160875

As you can see she's CED +1 BW 2.4 and CEM +0.
Are Rainfall's CED #s legit? Or I have 316, Flat Top, or Playbook to use on her this first time around.

Plus, don't know if it's a difference maker (on the calving ease by her being a few months past 15 mo.), but she's a late May, so I think i'll wait and breed her for a late Aug/early Sept first calf

We don’t have any experience with Flat Top, but I believe he is a 7229 son or Black Granite?

I would probably breed her to Playbook if she was mine. He is proven CE and ours were slightly larger framed than the Capitalist 316 depending on the frame size of your heifer. All of our Playbooks have turned out really nice. They won’t blow you away with performance but the females look very promising so far.
 

CattleMan1920

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CreekAngus said:
I would definitely breed a Resource to Rainfall. I haven't personally seen any of the progeny, but from folks I know, President makes better bulls, Rainfall better daughters. In my personal situation I would use Rainfall, because I don't think Raindance or President are worth the extra money for the straws. You can reach out to SAV and they will give you their experience with these three. Square B has Rainfall and they are really good to talk with as is Herbster for President. I called ST Genetics about Raindance, but now they hound me all the time to buy semen.

I’ve never had that experience with ST Genetics, interesting.
 
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torogmc81

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LCBulls said:
torogmc81 said:
LCBulls said:
I have no idea. I think the only one that would know for sure would be Kelly Schaff and those who frequent his ranch.

I know that Rainfall has a big following.He looks to be a little bit smaller mature size, just based on the videos that have been posted. He’s definitely got really nice shape to him for a CE Heifer Bull.

19160875

As you can see she's CED +1 BW 2.4 and CEM +0.
Are Rainfall's CED #s legit? Or I have 316, Flat Top, or Playbook to use on her this first time around.

Plus, don't know if it's a difference maker (on the calving ease by her being a few months past 15 mo.), but she's a late May, so I think i'll wait and breed her for a late Aug/early Sept first calf

We don’t have any experience with Flat Top, but I believe he is a 7229 son or Black Granite?

I would probably breed her to Playbook if she was mine. He is proven CE and ours were slightly larger framed than the Capitalist 316 depending on the frame size of your heifer. All of our Playbooks have turned out really nice. They won’t blow you away with performance but the females look very promising so far.

We have a lot of Playbook due to calve this fall and are using him on a few heifers and more to come. This Resource heifer is probably in the 5.5 range, but being a Resource makes me be a little extra cautious on the first calf. That's why i'm thinking hard on 316, Rainfall, and Playbook, and making the right decision, even though i'm probably overthinking it. And you're right about Flat Top, i completely forgot he's a 7229 grandson.
 

CreekAngus

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Branded Angus said:
CreekAngus said:
I would definitely breed a Resource to Rainfall. I haven't personally seen any of the progeny, but from folks I know, President makes better bulls, Rainfall better daughters. In my personal situation I would use Rainfall, because I don't think Raindance or President are worth the extra money for the straws. You can reach out to SAV and they will give you their experience with these three. Square B has Rainfall and they are really good to talk with as is Herbster for President. I called ST Genetics about Raindance, but now they hound me all the time to buy semen.

I’ve never had that experience with ST Genetics, interesting.
Probably because you bought something, I have’nt. Thought Raindance was over priced and they had a Shipwheel bull I was looking at, can’t remember the name, but I decided against him, seems post legged.
 

LCBulls

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torogmc81 said:
LCBulls said:
torogmc81 said:
19160875

As you can see she's CED +1 BW 2.4 and CEM +0.
Are Rainfall's CED #s legit? Or I have 316, Flat Top, or Playbook to use on her this first time around.

Plus, don't know if it's a difference maker (on the calving ease by her being a few months past 15 mo.), but she's a late May, so I think i'll wait and breed her for a late Aug/early Sept first calf

We don’t have any experience with Flat Top, but I believe he is a 7229 son or Black Granite?

I would probably breed her to Playbook if she was mine. He is proven CE and ours were slightly larger framed than the Capitalist 316 depending on the frame size of your heifer. All of our Playbooks have turned out really nice. They won’t blow you away with performance but the females look very promising so far.

We have a lot of Playbook due to calve this fall and are using him on a few heifers and more to come. This Resource heifer is probably in the 5.5 range, but being a Resource makes me be a little extra cautious on the first calf. That's why i'm thinking hard on 316, Rainfall, and Playbook, and making the right decision, even though i'm probably overthinking it. And you're right about Flat Top, i completely forgot he's a 7229 grandson.

I don't think you can pick a bad one if your considering those 3 Bulls. We've liked our 316 calves. Only one 316 that didn't grow out as well, but he was on a heifer.

(Playbook x Seedstock) Yearling after covering cows
 

NEFarmwife

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We went to Scott Angus last night and looked at 7 President daughters. My favorite of the group far differed than my husbands favorite. 3 of which were flush sisters. I preferred a Primrose X President. The one I liked the most appeared much squattier (shorter and compact) than her flush sisters and I'd say, pulled more from Charlo.

We talked about Raindance and Rainfall as well. I was told that the rainfalls do come much smaller (heifer bull, so that makes sense) but in all of about 2 months, they'll catch up to the others.

Not everything I learn on these trips is meant to be discussed out loud. So for that, I'll refrain. If I had MY choice on one of the three, I would do Rainfall. And that is who I chose to breed to last spring. I think they all have their place though.
 

CreekAngus

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LCBulls said:
CreekAngus said:
NEFarmwife said:
How blessed are you? That view is amazing!

Where is that? See that irrigation in the back ground and jealousy abounds.

We’re in Northern Utah.

I was thinking SE Idaho, that looks a lot like the Bear Lake area near Montpelier. One of the most beautiful parts of the US.
 

LCBulls

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CreekAngus said:
LCBulls said:
CreekAngus said:
Where is that? See that irrigation in the back ground and jealousy abounds.

We’re in Northern Utah.

I was thinking SE Idaho, that looks a lot like the Bear Lake area near Montpelier. One of the most beautiful parts of the US.

Bear Lake area is really beautiful. We are Near Kamas, Utah which is a couple hour drive from Bear Lake. We normally run up on the mountains within 30 miles as a crow flies from Bear Lake.
 

LCBulls

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NEFarmwife said:
We went to Scott Angus last night and looked at 7 President daughters. My favorite of the group far differed than my husbands favorite. 3 of which were flush sisters. I preferred a Primrose X President. The one I liked the most appeared much squattier (shorter and compact) than her flush sisters and I'd say, pulled more from Charlo.

We talked about Raindance and Rainfall as well. I was told that the rainfalls do come much smaller (heifer bull, so that makes sense) but in all of about 2 months, they'll catch up to the others.

Not everything I learn on these trips is meant to be discussed out loud. So for that, I'll refrain. If I had MY choice on one of the three, I would do Rainfall. And that is who I chose to breed to last spring. I think they all have their place though.

That would be really cool to get to see all those ET calf’s that they raise for Schaffs.
One thing is pretty certain with that flush is that it will probably go down as the most profitable flush ever in the breed.

Rainfall does look to be the most similar to his Sire. His CE, BW and moderate mature size.
Rainfall is guaranteed to be used a lot because most commercial outfits usually just AI their heifers.

You can tell a significant difference in performance if you flip through the SAV Sale Book and average all the actual WW and YW of President/Raindance vs Rainfall.

I agree that they all have their place. If it was me I’d use Rainfall on Heifers/ Bigger cows similar to how Charlo works the best.
 

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