Question for my Line One friends

[WichitaLineMan]

Any of you know anything about this cow?

Would appreciate feedback, good or bad.

HH MISS ADVANCE 2111 M

 

[hereford_jock]

http://www.tymecattleco.com/hhmissadvance2111m.html

Tried to find the thread but couldnt find it. I remember it said something about a bad udder and if you look at the picture its blured out. Other than that i dont know much about her

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Thanks a million for posting that. I had forgotten about that link. I remember the discussion but had no idea this was that cow.

That's a shame about her udder.

 

[alexfarms]

She comes from a strong cow family. Her maternal grand dam was an outstanding producer at the Miles City Station. They used 2 or 3 of her sons, which is unusually high. It is a shame about the udders, it seems to pop out some on the station cattle.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Gee Whiz maybe if people quit using spoiled uddered cows to raise bulls they'd quit popping up for the commercial man to have to cull!!!!

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Gee Whiz maybe if people quit using spoiled uddered cows to raise bulls they'd quit popping up for the commercial man to have to cull!!!!

I agree. We have to be super diligent about breeding sound stock be it legs, feet, udders, testicles, or skeletal structure. No animal is perfect but that cow's udder is too bad to excuse.

 

[alexfarms]

The current group of scientists at Miles City seems to do better than many in the past as far as selecting away from problems. There have been experiments there where their selections were made by gate cutting, just to check whether all the data collection and selection is really accomplishing anything. The basic selection goal has been to maximize yearling growth and often times problems have been overlooked. I know they are scoring udders up there now. So, the info is available to buyers and I think 850413 was a pretty good uddered cow.

I think I remember looking through the Schafer's dispersion catalog and the udders on the daughters of the 4140 bull weren't impressive.

 

[TexasBred]

Would be nice to know the history behind the ugly udder. Sometimes they're not born with them and a lot of older cattle with bad udders once had very nice udders. But as I mentioned in anothe thread, bad udders do seem to be the one wink link in herefords.

 

[Northern Rancher]

A cow with good udder structure will rarely go bad-there is no excuse to continue to propogate functionally unsound cattle. I was at a Hereford outfit in Wyoming one time had some real great uddered Hereford cattle-any cow with an udder like that was bred Charolais and all the progeny sold to slaughter as they should be.

 

[Doug Thorson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkgBHE4YoBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBLbFjZcz4I

Those are 8 year old cows.

 

[TexasBred]

A cow with good udder structure will rarely go bad-there is no excuse to continue to propogate functionally unsound cattle. I was at a Hereford outfit in Wyoming one time had some real great uddered Hereford cattle-any cow with an udder like that was bred Charolais and all the progeny sold to slaughter as they should be.

Apparently every breeder doesn't do that as the udders don't seem to be improving much.

 

[Hey you]

I think that if you look the bad udder for this cow comes through the mother of 386.
Too bad that we couldn't tell what a cows udder would be like when she gets to be ten or so. There lies probably one fo the biggest obstacles in breeding. We can have many offspring mingled throught the industry befor the bad udders pop up.
Then you have some bad decisions 20 or 30 years ago rear their ugly head.
Vigilance is the only answer we have

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I agree that this udder probably came from 386. I have talked to a very smart older cattleman who worked as a ranch manager for several big outfits and used lots of line one breeding and even showed a Denver champion.

He was very clear to me that 386 daughters were apt to have terrible udder problems after the age of 6 or 7. He said he had observed this in other's herds and in animals he had bred as ranch manager.

I was always fond of looking at the old pictures of 386 and was disappointed to hear this news. That was the original reason for my asking on this thread. I had looked at the cow's pedigree and wondered. It did not dawn on me however that this cow had been discussed before. I remembered the thread once a few folks PM'ed me, but at the time I posted did not remember.

I am most disappointed in whoever photoshopped the udder in the photo that is online now. Was it the new breeder or Schafer's or Schocks or Holdens? Whoever did it should be ashamed.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I can live with this type of young Hereford cow.

Or this one-we've got quite a few baldies and some straightbreds out of the same bull-I can't see the udder thing going bad anytime soon. They aren't perfect by any means but I think they are useful which is about as much of an accolade as you get out of me.

 

[Hereford76]

basic selection goal has been to maximize yearling growth

they CAN THANk their lucky stars for the frame race... what year did that deal start???? a guy would think they'd shift gears and single trait select on something else

 

[Brandonm22]

daughters were apt to have terrible udder problems after the age of 6 or 7. He said he had observed this in other's herds and in animals he had bred as ranch manager.

That is one reason why many (maybe most) of the really hard charging big names (of whatever breed) try to roll everything by age 7. The sight of a cow or two with an "old" udder or a limp or a weak topline or bony on a ride through the pastures can freak out potential buyers. The solution to most of that is lots of feed and getting rid of all the cows through production sales or mature cowherd dispersions while they are still in their primes. The only problem with that is that the breeders himself doesn't know much about the longevity of his cows.

 

[alexfarms]

basic selection goal has been to maximize yearling growth

they CAN THANk their lucky stars for the frame race... what year did that deal start???? a guy would think they'd shift gears and single trait select on something else

I believe maximizing yearling growth was the goal from the inception of the linebreeding programs at the Miles City station in the 1940's. They pioneered performance testing. The original plan was to develop several lines of linebred Herefords that could then be linecrossed on to each other to produce hybrids for hybrid vigor. They were copying the idea of the hybrid seed corn industry, which was just taking off.

 

[BIZIN]

NR... Those cows out of 20P? Threw those two Fraser bulls out with cows on Monday.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Yeah those are 20P daughters-they were just a couple I saw while Murray and I were shooting gophers lol. I'm trying to get a set of baldie half sisters built up off him. The cancer deal has kind of hoopped my A'I program at home but I get a few from Murray every year.

 

[BIZIN]

Ok. I've got one 5P son and one 20P son. Ya, Jaydee told dad about the cancer, never a good thing to hear.