Question and opinions wanted

[pappy6]

I have always gotten some good advice and experienced views when I posted a question so I am back again. My previous experience with cattle had been mostly with assembling and grouping weaned heifers to the point of ready to breed or breeding them and selling a group at 6-7 months bred. This worked well for me with the time constraints of my job.

After retiring, I decided to go cow/calf and had always had good results with beefmaster/eared cattle. For the most part I am well pleased with my herd and the way they produce but a couple of cows have prolapsed prior to calving--cervical. I have had a vet work on one and an experienced local cattleman help in the second case. Both have made comments that the reason for prolapse is inherent in eared cattle. The cattle are not heavy grain fed during pregnancy but normally only get hay and protein tubs. Out of 40 cows this is not a large % but just wondering if others think it is inherent to Brahman crosses? Is there something that those of you that run these type of cows could recommend to help this from happening? I use a balanced repro loose mineral from the local co-op.

Also, the current cow that has shown this problem is probably going to calve within a week and the cervical material has gone back inside. Would you expect this to be pushed out when she delivers?

Thanks for any advice and opinions.

 

[hillrancher]

A few years back bought a South Devon bull put on beafmaster mothers. The offspings were just what I thought needed for my terain. Kept 20 hefers the first year and more each year for 4 years I have none now all the problem you are having. My vet told me the same as yours has. Did get good sewing up the back end.

 

[Jonny]

Yes,

I have replaced 30-40 in the last 2 years. All except 1 has had Brahman influence ie charbray, santas and droughtmasters. Exception was a very fat angus cow.
Vaginal/cervical prolapse has 60% chance of recurring and is highly heritable.
We recommend clients to get rid of the cow once the calf is weaned. If it is a heifer calf don't keep her.

My neighbor purchased his herd from a single source when he first moved into the area 10 years ago. Had about 15% of his herd have prolapse. Followed the advice above from my boss. Hasn't had a prolapse for 3 years.

 

[Sir Loin]

pappy6

Re:

reason for prolapsed is inherent in eared cattle. snip others think it is inherent to Brahman crosses?

Although most common in mature animals in late pregnancy, vaginal prolapse occurs in young, nonpregnant ewes and heifers, especially in fat animals. Predisposing factors include grazing estrogenic plants (especially Trifolium subterraneum ) or exogenous administration of estrogenic compounds (usually in the form of growth-promotant implants). Cervicovaginal prolapse is more common in stabled than in pastured animals, suggesting that lack of exercise may be a contributing factor. Vaginal prolapse may also be a problem in cows subjected to repeated superovulation for embryo recovery. A genetic component in the pathogenesis of cervicovaginal prolapse is likely because a breed predisposition exists in both cattle (Brahman, Brahman crossbreds, Hereford)

Source: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 111800.htm

One thing Merck does not mention for cattle, as you are in hilly TN, is that cows who lay down with their butts down hill are more susceptible to prolapsed.

Re:

Would you expect this to be pushed out when she delivers?

Yes, but if it is minor and if she has a normal delivery it should go back in on it's own.
Merck again: "
Re:

recommend to help this from happening?

I don't really think there is much you can do to prevent it. Cull them.
SL

 

[dun]

One thing Merck does not mention for cattle, as you are in hilly TN, is that cows who lay down with their butts down hill are more susceptible to prolapsed.

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard!

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF9GBR3B0LE

 

[Sir Loin]

Some people never learn!

Added to this, sheep tend to face uphill when lying down, so that gravity assists vaginal eversion and prolapse.

Merck again, learn to read before shooting off your mouth!
Now common sense should tell you, if it happens to sheep it can also happen to cattle.

Now apologize for your rudeness.
SL

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have always gotten some good advice and experienced views when I posted a question so I am back again. My previous experience with cattle had been mostly with assembling and grouping weaned heifers to the point of ready to breed or breeding them and selling a group at 6-7 months bred. This worked well for me with the time constraints of my job.

After retiring, I decided to go cow/calf and had always had good results with beefmaster/eared cattle. For the most part I am well pleased with my herd and the way they produce but a couple of cows have prolapsed prior to calving--cervical. I have had a vet work on one and an experienced local cattleman help in the second case. Both have made comments that the reason for prolapse is inherent in eared cattle. The cattle are not heavy grain fed during pregnancy but normally only get hay and protein tubs. Out of 40 cows this is not a large % but just wondering if others think it is inherent to Brahman crosses? Is there something that those of you that run these type of cows could recommend to help this from happening? I use a balanced repro loose mineral from the local co-op.



Also, the current cow that has shown this problem is probably going to calve within a week and the cervical material has gone back inside. Would you expect this to be pushed out when she delivers?

Thanks for any advice and opinions.

Horseshyt on brahman influence being the cause.
I have ran every percentage of brammer cow there is and never had a prolapse problem.
I have had a bell teat problem from time to time and weeded those out.
If that was the case no one in this part of the world have cattle.
Thrity percent of the US cow herd is Brimmer influenced.
I have seen the prolapse problem more from a Herf/Brimmer cross not common.
The most problem I ever had was from a bloodline of Herf's I had that I culled out over the years.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Never had a case myself. brangus mostly is what I run.

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

Never had a case myself. brangus mostly is what I run.

Flat ground, right?


I see about 1 - 2 virginals per year but they go back in on their own, except one 2 years ago and we lost her.
See 4-5 rectal ones per year in both cows and calves and they all go back in on their own.
Black Angus on nothing but hills. :???: Draw your own conclusion.
SL

 

[Caustic Burno]

Re:

Never had a case myself. brangus mostly is what I run.

Flat ground, right?


I see about 1 - 2 virginals per year but they go back in on their own, except one 2 years ago and we lost her.
See 4-5 rectal ones per year in both cows and calves and they all go back in on their own.
Black Angus on nothing but hills. :???: Draw your own conclusion.
SL

I wish I had flat ground.
You walk out my front door not paying attention by the time you stop rolling you better have your bathing suit on cause you are going to be in the creek.
My tractor is shorter on one side from working these hill's.

 

[3waycross]

Some people never learn!

Added to this, sheep tend to face uphill when lying down, so that gravity assists vaginal eversion and prolapse.

Merck again, learn to read before shooting off your mouth!
Now common sense should tell you, if it happens to sheep it can also happen to cattle.

Now apologize for your rudeness.
SL

Are you so desperate for a win that you have to be RUDE yourself. Just who would you have Dun apologize to? Merck? I doubt that they care if he thinks it's the dumbest thing he ever heard.

You? I don't believe he insulted or was rude to you. He said that IT was the dumbest thing he ever heard. Not you were the dumbest thing he ever heard.

So now here's your chance to show a little class and apologize yourself.

Of course you will rationalize it, :frowns: and like always try to paint yourself as injured......... :frowns: :frowns:

 

[Sir Loin]

3waycross etal

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told others.
If you can't take my dry humor, posts or me, DON"T read my posts.
It's just that simple:
Step one: Look for Leo
Step B. Don't read
Now what part of that can't you understand?
SL


Note to self: File this under DH " chain pulling", dun & 3way .

 

[cow pollinater]

I haven't dealt with a prolapse in a few years and about the only semi-flat ground to be had where my cows are at is the corrals and the top of the posts on the lower half is even with the bottoms of the posts on the upper half and they're not a very big set of corrals. Most of my cows have at least a little ear.
Does "dry humor" mean that you admit that you don't know what you're talking about?

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

Does "dry humor" mean that you admit that you don't know what you're talking about?

Sure!
Sometimes I through one out there just to get someone to prove me wrong, hoping they will do some research for me that I want done.
But that has never worked, on here, all I ever get here is personal attacks and shooting from the hip and personal experience story.
Now to me that's funny------- true, but funny.
SL

 

[3waycross]

Note to self: File this under DH " chain pulling", dun & 3way .[/quote]


Note to myself. Stop arguing with the Cliff Clavin of Cattle Today............it's a waste of time!

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Ole Sear loin needs to check out these little hills we got here in the Ozarks, don't reckon they are steep enough to cause a prolapse. Cause i ain't never seen cow lay down on much of a steep spot.

 

[Sir Loin]

Red Bull,
Re:

Ole Sear loin needs to check out these little hills we got here in the Ozarks, don't reckon they are steep enough to cause a prolapse.

I'm not being a smart azz but I would like to take you up on your offer.
And in return I make you the same offer.

Would you care to swap addresses and we both can do a EarthLink flyover and watch the elevation on the bottom of the flyover.

Here is mine with instructions.
search.php?keywords=368+sanders+road&terms=all&author=Sir+Loin&sc=1&sf=msgonly&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

SL

 

[pappy6]

Hey guys and gals...been real busy last couple of days and just now got back to post...sorry to see this has resulted into a personal conflict.

I do have a lot of hills but this latest event happened on a relatively flat area...she has retracted and held for the last couple of days. Should be calving soon so will update result after that. You have been helpful in responding... thanks!!

One thing comes out in the responses that I find interesting...the answers from Texas and California don't seem to have had this problem...could the minerals readily available in the soil help in this problem even though I feed a balanced mineral?

Hillrancher...can I PM you concerning the South Devon?

Thanks

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I don't need to see hills in Tn. Planted lots of pine trees over there in the eightys. I can tell you there is not much difference in the terrain.Our hills in the Ozarks are just as steep as yours.