Q for angus breeders

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bigbull338

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i watch alot of angus bull sales on rfd.an i notice alot of them sale from 300 to 1300 reg angus bulls.now i know those ranches have 1000 to 4000 cows.as well as what et calves are born.but do they steer the bottom 40% of bulls.or do they raise all the bulls for herd bulls.
 
It just depends, but a good percentage of the ones selling on RFDTV are selling close to 80-85% of their bull crop. The ones that sell very much less than that generally advertise how deeply they cull with percentages, ie "we tested only the top 50% from weaning", etc.

But, you have to watch the promotion, too. One guy I know advertises one thing about how much he culls, but he still markets close to 80% of the bulls that are born. That doesn't strike me as culling hard. One of the guys I bought my original cows from sold 8-10 bulls per year from a 120 cow herd. This is a little closer to "hard culling" I think.

Badlands
 
bigbull338":blyrhb73 said:
i watch alot of angus bull sales on rfd.an i notice alot of them sale from 300 to 1300 reg angus bulls.now i know those ranches have 1000 to 4000 cows.as well as what et calves are born.but do they steer the bottom 40% of bulls.or do they raise all the bulls for herd bulls.

You'd have to ask the individual selling the bulls. Sometimes in the leadup to the sale, they'll talk about their program or if you can get your hands on the catalog it might say something.
 
It doesn't matter how high of a % of bulls one guy culls compared to the next guy. "Breeder A" may have culls better than "Breeder B" So Breeder A can sell a higher % of bulls than Breeder B. Their is no reason that everyone needs to cull 40 to 50%. I was at a sale this spring where they only culled around 10% of the bulls and they actually had one of the better sets of bulls from top to bottom comparing to the rest of the sales I have been at. My theory is if you cull your cowherd hard, then their shouldn't be much for junk being raised.
 
yall answered my q .thanks for the replys.i knew they had tobe selling 80% of their bulls as breeders.i guess i dont see how they can have that meny top bull mommas in their herd.i know im getting into reg beefmasters,an i know i could spend 50 grand on 10 to 25hd of top cows.an they all wouldnt have saleable bull calves every year.i figure itll take me 3 to 5yrs before i get a keeper bulls out of the cows.an im not scared to pay for the cows.
 
BRG":1wckbg2l said:
It doesn't matter how high of a % of bulls one guy culls compared to the next guy. "Breeder A" may have culls better than "Breeder B" So Breeder A can sell a higher % of bulls than Breeder B. Their is no reason that everyone needs to cull 40 to 50%. I was at a sale this spring where they only culled around 10% of the bulls and they actually had one of the better sets of bulls from top to bottom comparing to the rest of the sales I have been at. My theory is if you cull your cowherd hard, then their shouldn't be much for junk being raised.
Exactly. I am wondering what kind of breeding goes on in a place that only has 10 or 12 bulls out of 120 cows.
 
I wonder about the quality of bulls, when say a breeder has 120 cows and 100 Bulls for sale...I think the harder you cull the better quality you get...
 
Victoria":2ycjwbuy said:
BRG":2ycjwbuy said:
It doesn't matter how high of a % of bulls one guy culls compared to the next guy. "Breeder A" may have culls better than "Breeder B" So Breeder A can sell a higher % of bulls than Breeder B. Their is no reason that everyone needs to cull 40 to 50%. I was at a sale this spring where they only culled around 10% of the bulls and they actually had one of the better sets of bulls from top to bottom comparing to the rest of the sales I have been at. My theory is if you cull your cowherd hard, then their shouldn't be much for junk being raised.
Exactly. I am wondering what kind of breeding goes on in a place that only has 10 or 12 bulls out of 120 cows.

The "% of culls" is not what determines the value, or lack therof, of a cow herd. The QUALITY of the bulls being sold is the factor which will establish a reputation of a breeder - good or bad. By the same token - if a man owns 5 head of cows, and they are all in the upper 2% for all Genetic traits of the total number of cows in the breed that year - the chances are pretty high that ALL of his bulls will be as good or better than most of the bulls sold in the country - not guaranteed, but pretty good odds. . . and he may not cull ANY of them. The higher number of cows you own, the higher NUMBER of culls you should have, but the percentage may not be too high. If I were buying bulls, I would concern myself with the QUALITY of the individuals and not fret over what % of culling the breeder performed. That is why it is important that one must be able to differentiate the Genetics which his herd requires from those which will do him no good.

DOC HARRIS
 
It's all relative.

If you have the greatest set of cows in the world, you will still need to cull hard enough to maintain your status. Granted, the culls out of that might be another mans high seller but the bar is their.

Some years it may vary, but culling is always relative to your own herd. There is a bottom end in every herd.


As far as the guy selling 10 bulls out of 120 cows, you wouldn't doubt that the bulls should be good if finances allow to not keep many bulls.
 
Another point of view.
If a breeder has a lower % of culls could it mean that his genetics are stronger and are more likely to be past on to his progeny?
 
novatech":2mqknblk said:
Another point of view.
If a breeder has a lower % of culls could it mean that his genetics are stronger and are more likely to be past on to his progeny?

Yes it could. But it could also mean that his standards aren't as high as another breeders. Some breeders won't sell any animals intended for breeding that they wouldn't use in their own herd. Some will, as long as they can still make money selling them.

What DOC said is true, IMO. The quality of the bulls are more important than the cull rate of the breeder. That being said, a breeder shouldn't automatically get a bad reputation for selling lower quality, lower priced bulls if that's what the buyer is looking for. As long as the breeder is honest about what the buyer is getting, the buyer should be happy with it.
 
VanC":1fsc7z5n said:
That being said, a breeder shouldn't automatically get a bad reputation for selling lower quality, lower priced bulls if that's what the buyer is looking for. As long as the breeder is honest about what the buyer is getting, the buyer should be happy with it.

Selling a sorry bull to a buyer who knows what he's getting is fine. He knows and you know. But the guy driving by on his way to work and seeing that bull, knowing where he was raised, developed and sold, doesn't know about the understanding. He just knows that bull came from your place and is a sorry looking bull and sires sorry calves. It can be a balancing act to maintain your reputation and make some money, especially since bull buyers are all looking for different traits in their bulls. I've asked many bull buyers why they like a particular bull and very few of them can tell me. They just know what they like when they see it.
 
Frankie":4obqacvd said:
VanC":4obqacvd said:
That being said, a breeder shouldn't automatically get a bad reputation for selling lower quality, lower priced bulls if that's what the buyer is looking for. As long as the breeder is honest about what the buyer is getting, the buyer should be happy with it.

Selling a sorry bull to a buyer who knows what he's getting is fine. He knows and you know. But the guy driving by on his way to work and seeing that bull, knowing where he was raised, developed and sold, doesn't know about the understanding. He just knows that bull came from your place and is a sorry looking bull and sires sorry calves. It can be a balancing act to maintain your reputation and make some money, especially since bull buyers are all looking for different traits in their bulls. I've asked many bull buyers why they like a particular bull and very few of them can tell me. They just know what they like when they see it.

You make some excellent points, and I can see where maintaining a reputation and making money might be a tough balance to maintain. I didn't mean to imply that a lower quality bull would automatically be a sorry looking thing that sires sorry looking calves, although that would be in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. Here's the scenario I sorta had in mind:

Joe has 25 cows. He wants an Angus bull, but can't afford to pay $3000 and up for a really good one and still make a little money. His neighbor is a top notch Angus breeder and gets top dollar for his better stuff. What's wrong with him keeping back a few lower quality, lower priced bulls for people like Joe? It could still be a decent bull, just not one of his better ones. Would his reputation suffer? Should it?
 
Frankie":2jf7apvx said:
Each breeder has to make his own decision about what to sell or not.
a breeder has to decide if he wants to sale high dollar reg bulls to other high powered breeders.or to the comm cattleman.an price bulls so that the comm cattleman afford them.
 
VanC":2h3v16ew said:
Frankie":2h3v16ew said:
VanC":2h3v16ew said:
That being said, a breeder shouldn't automatically get a bad reputation for selling lower quality, lower priced bulls if that's what the buyer is looking for. As long as the breeder is honest about what the buyer is getting, the buyer should be happy with it.

Selling a sorry bull to a buyer who knows what he's getting is fine. He knows and you know. But the guy driving by on his way to work and seeing that bull, knowing where he was raised, developed and sold, doesn't know about the understanding. He just knows that bull came from your place and is a sorry looking bull and sires sorry calves. It can be a balancing act to maintain your reputation and make some money, especially since bull buyers are all looking for different traits in their bulls. I've asked many bull buyers why they like a particular bull and very few of them can tell me. They just know what they like when they see it.

You make some excellent points, and I can see where maintaining a reputation and making money might be a tough balance to maintain. I didn't mean to imply that a lower quality bull would automatically be a sorry looking thing that sires sorry looking calves, although that would be in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. Here's the scenario I sorta had in mind:

Joe has 25 cows. He wants an Angus bull, but can't afford to pay $3000 and up for a really good one and still make a little money. His neighbor is a top notch Angus breeder and gets top dollar for his better stuff. What's wrong with him keeping back a few lower quality, lower priced bulls for people like Joe? It could still be a decent bull, just not one of his better ones. Would his reputation suffer? Should it?

What's a really good one? I would put up some of my calves every year against what shows up on full page ads in the AJ, as far as performance, coming from bulletproof, non bag fed cows and having an apparent rear end.. The most I've ever paid for a bull was $1350 with second highest $800. As a matter of fact, I haven't bought a bull for several years, as I AI the better cows and raise my own.

With all the widespread use of AI and ET, the so called good bloodlines are all over the place. So what people are paying for is the reputation, maybe?

Another question is what is a lesser quality bull? What does that mean?

No growth?
No Milk/Too much Milk
Bad Bags
Won't grade?
Bad Dispositions
Not enough hair :)

Why would you want him, At any price?

There are plenty of performance tested bulls out there at a reasonable price. At least that is what I have found.
 
Exactly. I am wondering what kind of breeding goes on in a place that only has 10 or 12 bulls out of 120 cows.


Well, this is a good example of thinking too much about something you don't know much about.

What went on at this place? Nothing more than one of the best, undiscovered herds in the nation. A humble guy with no big dreams of impacting the seedstock industry as he saw it for the kind of pimping game that it can be in popular breeds, and how it generally destroys function in the cowherd. One of those places where you DON'T see how much better the old cows are, or the young cows are, because everything has been pretty constant over time.

He simply feeds them all out himself, direct marketed them when direct marketing wasn't cool and had his reputation built before it became cool.


Badlands
 
Badlands,

You dont have to tell me who the breeder in question is but I know of a guy fitting that description that I buy bulls from. He is from Northern Montana and that is all I'm gonna say.
 
This guy isn't, but I know there are plenty of them around. Kind of undiscovered gems, and they like it that way.

Badlands
 

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