Pure vs. Commercial

[IluvABbeef]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

 

[Bez!]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

All sorts of good things about both and all sorts of bad things about both.

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,

Bez!

 

[SF]

I'm not sure what you mean by pure vs commerical. Do you mean seedstock producer vs commerical producer? or do you mean purebred vs crossbred?

 

[LFF]

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,

Bez!

Not True Bez.
Do you really think that you are truthfully anwsering a person who is asking a sincere guestion ?

 

[Bez!]

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,

Bez!

Not True Bez.
Do you really think that you are truthfully anwsering a person who is asking a sincere guestion ?

Why is it not true?

I see it here stated here all the time - anything that is registerable (is that a word?) - HAS to be kept because of the high quality bloodlines in the parental background.

As for the question - well the questioner comes from a great part of the world and knows how to take my answer - SF knows me as well - so all is AOK with me.

You want to set me straight, I am all ears - I try to learn something new every day.

Errr .....I am always sincere - even when I am not.

Have a good one,

Bez!

 

[cherokeeruby]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

All sorts of good things about both and all sorts of bad things about both.

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,



Bez!

Mine are papered but they are certainly not pampered. And we are quick to cull despite bloodlines.

 

[msscamp]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

All sorts of good things about both and all sorts of bad things about both.

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,



Bez!

And we are quick to cull despite bloodlines.

Same here, and they are not pampered.

 

[Ryder]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.[/quote
That is a verrry broad question. Hard to answer in a simple manner.

 

[LFF]

[/quote]

Why is it not true?

I see it here stated here all the time - anything that is registerable (is that a word?) - HAS to be kept because of the high quality bloodlines in the parental background.

As for the question - well the questioner comes from a great part of the world and knows how to take my answer - SF knows me as well - so all is AOK with me.

You want to set me straight, I am all ears - I try to learn something new every day.

Errr .....I am always sincere - even when I am not.

Have a good one,

Bez![/quote]

Bez we sure are opening a can of worms and I'd hoped that some of you Guru's would provide a better written answer than I can, however I'll try.

Lets start with papered and non-papered.
There are purebreds of all breeds that do not have papers due to the owners not wanting to be involved with the expense, paper work, and breed assocations.

As for registering only because of popular bloodlines , that is not normaly the case. I have some Herefords with very popular bloodlines that will not be registered even though they are good cattle and I will use them in my crossbred herd. If a breeder doesn't want to buy certificates or pay the association expenses and believes they have better cattle worth the additional cost they often register only the best.

The majority of registerable cattle are sold in certified programs or at the sale barn. They have often been fed out as beef or sold as commercial heifers and do not have papers.


Ok now to the orginal question. PUREBRED vs. COMMERCIAL
I'm not trying to include all the good and bad of both types, just the one's that come to mind. I hope that others will add their input.

Commercial cattle have documented proof, when purebreds used in a two and three controlled crossbreeding system, out preform purebreeds. The hoge-poge hienze 57 cattle usally will not out preform purebreeds. After crossing three purebred breeds you lose the most valued item (heterosis) and the benifits that go with it. I'm sure some people will not agree with that statement, however there are too many studies that prove it to be so. Commercial producers must use purebreds to get the best crossbred cattle. Most crossbred cattle have no predetermined breed plan and do not preform as well as purebreds.

Purebred cattle often have a area of production in which they surpass all cross breeds. Examples : Angus and Herefords marble and fertility , Zulu cattle tolerate heat , Connential breeds add size , dairy cattle milk. PS I'm not stating that any of the listed breeds are the best in class.
The purebreds are needed to give the commercial producers the best genetics to creat their herds. Purebreds often have genetics that excel in beef production and therefore target a specified market program. Crossbred cattle using a percentage of purebreeds can also meet targeted programs.

Registered cattle are different that purebred cattle. Registered cattle are papered purebreds that should be the cream of the crop , however that is not always so. Many are over pampered and do not accurately reflect what a purebred or commercial producer needs.
Registered cattle have age , source , and genetic vertification. They should increase profitability of cattle production , again this is not always the case. Many producers are more interested in show qualities and prestige instead of productivity.
The purebred producer needs a reliable and honest registered producer. There are many honest seedstock producers and if you are willing to invest the time , research , and money you can produce cattle that increase profit. Be sure to do your research wisely before buying or attempting to become a seedstock producer.

I hope this answers some of your guestions and I hope other will reply with more input.

 

[Brandonm2]

The biggest difference between a Purebred seedstock farm and a commercial farm is their customer base. Seedstock growers produce bulls for commercial cattlemen, quality replacement females for other cattle farms, and showy calves for juniors. A commercial cattleman produces calves to sell at the local stockyard or to retain ownership at the feedlot and sell them on the grid. A commercial cattleman's primary customer is the American packing industry. A seedstock producer on the other hand (hopefully) is selling his calves mostly as breeding stock. A seedstock grower spends money on registration papers, and advertising that the commercial grower does not spend, but "in theory" he sells his cattle at an above market premium. Selling seedstock successfully is about forming relationships with people so that they will come to you for their kid's next show prospect, their next bull, or for a donor female to build their program around. Commercial cattle is strictly about producing the nicest trailer loads of calves that you can without putting too much money in to them.

Historically seedstock growers were mostly "pure" breeders; while the commercial guys could choose to crossbreed or not; but now that has been confused somewhat by the proliferation of "composites". Some purebreeders now sell composite bulls like "Sim-Angus", "Balancers", "Salorns", "Senegus", "Angus-Plus", "Chi-Angus", "Chi-Maines", "South Polls" and others also sell F1 females like black baldies, F1 Tigerstripes, Durham Cows, etc. Most of the seedstock market is still selling pure bulls and pure females though. A commercial crossbreeder can take the pure bulls of one breed and cross them to the commercial females of another 2 breeds and get ~20% more calf weaned than if he simple purebred his favorite breed.

 

[Frankie]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

Prices, marketing, are different for these operations. As a small operation, we make more money selling our bulls as breeding stock than we would make selling them as feeder steers. We have more money and time in them, but we still come out ahead.

I wouldn't say anything about either type operation is good or bad, they're just different. If you want to run a good bull on your cows, load up the calves and take them to the sale barn, obviously you need to be in the commercial business. Or if you want to improve the quality of the beef you're raising, retain ownership through the feedlot and collect carcass data, this is the way to go.

If you have an interest in genetics, marketing, have time to heat detect, AI and attend lots of sales, you might be better in the purebred business.

 

[Bez!]

Good morning LFF!

Apreciate your efforts in the answer.

1. I am not a Guru.

2. You take me and my sarcasm far too seriously. :lol:

3. Of course the can of worms is opened - that was my whole point. 8)

Stay well,

Bez!

 

[IluvABbeef]

I'm not sure what you mean by pure vs commerical. Do you mean seedstock producer vs commerical producer? or do you mean purebred vs crossbred?

I know my question is a bit broad (I intentionally made it that way ;-) ) But yeah, I mean BOTH seedstock producer/purebred vs. commercial producer/crossbred.

Thanks for your replies, folks! Keep 'em coming.

PS. Correct me if I'm wrong: F1 means half of one breed and half of another (hybrid--Example: bison hybrid (1/2 cattle, 1/2 bison)), right?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Dang Bez you have went and burst my bubble, I thought all you needed was papers to have a live calf and raise it up tp a 1000 pounds at 205 days.
Tell me this aint true papers say this cow is the best, says so here in black and white kinda of a yellow background on Angus papers.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

All sorts of good things about both and all sorts of bad things about both.

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,

Bez!

Bez-Here we are into the sometimes- misunderstood area of "Semantics", or the 'meaning' of words. What does IluvABbeef mean by "Pure" and "Commercial"? Your answer is very ambiguous. The extensive answer to ILABB's question fills many books, and then only when we know exactly what the question is!

A "Glossary of Terms" might be a good beginning, and then we could select specific terms to identify and explain. I think that ILABB should come back and help clarify the meaning of his question before we start "shooting arrows into the air" - because then we will be into another two or three week series of "Who Shot Cock Robin" answers and nothing will be settled. We have just 'been there and done that' last week with a couple of posters!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Bez!]

Chew me out if this has been mentioned before. But what are the good things, bad things and everythings of these two types of breeding operations :?: I'm curious.

All sorts of good things about both and all sorts of bad things about both.

Best thing about the "pure" is that every animal automatically is a breeder and better in quality than a commercial group.

Must be so, because they are "papered and pampered".

Have a good one,

Bez!

Bez-Here we are into the sometimes- misunderstood area of "Semantics", or the 'meaning' of words. What does IluvABbeef mean by "Pure" and "Commercial"? Your answer is very ambiguous. The extensive answer to ILABB's question fills many books, and then only when we know exactly what the question is!

A "Glossary of Terms" might be a good beginning, and then we could select specific terms to identify and explain. I think that ILABB should come back and help clarify the meaning of his question before we start "shooting arrows into the air" - because then we will be into another two or three week series of "Who Shot Cock Robin" answers and nothing will be settled. We have just 'been there and done that' last week with a couple of posters!

DOC HARRIS

I think in the future I will preface all of my comments with "this is a serious answer" or this is "not a serious answer".

In fact, I was just having a little fun - figuring there would be some who would jump all over me. And as I do not find it difficult to play dumb - and many would agree - I was going to play right along.

:lol:

Did not go the way I had hoped - Oh well - life is still good - I am on the right side of the grass.

Have to agree with your comments though.

Have a good one,

Bez!

 

[VanC]

For what it's worth, I was pretty sure Bez was just being sarcastic and having a little fun. Kinda like I do sometimes. Besides, I've seen enough of his posts to know he wouldn't give an answer so lacking unless he was joking around.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

The "registration" issue: In the Longhorn business it only costs $15. to register one's animal...drop in bucket compared to much higher price can get for registered animal.

All of our cattle are registered (calves eligible for registration and we usually register them at weaning/branding). SOME of our calves are sold to commercial ranchers, hobby farmers, etc. SOME of those people could care less about registration paperwork.

On fairly rare occasion we end up with a calf that we do not feel is suitable as a breeder...it goes to sale barn or to our freezer. We still register them because the calf record shows that the dam had a calf EVERY year...important if we decide to sell one of our dams and get a bigger and better one to replace.

 

[LFF]

For what it's worth, I was pretty sure Bez was just being sarcastic and having a little fun. Kinda like I do sometimes. Besides, I've seen enough of his posts to know he wouldn't give an answer so lacking unless he was joking around.

I understand sarcasm but what about the newbies the unfamiliar readers who do not know the personalities. If someone was really trying to learn and could not tell when someone was just "pulling their leg" , how do you think some post are received. People come to the board to learn. It is good to share a laugh and maybe we should say something like "just kidding" if we aren't serious. Is the board going to be about having fun or helping others. I thought it was both. Our comments need to be stated in such a manner that new readers understand when we are funning and when we are serious.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

For what it's worth, I was pretty sure Bez was just being sarcastic and having a little fun. Kinda like I do sometimes. Besides, I've seen enough of his posts to know he wouldn't give an answer so lacking unless he was joking around.

I understand sarcasm but what about the newbies the unfamiliar readers who do not know the personalities. If someone was really trying to learn and could not tell when someone was just "pulling their leg" , how do you think some post are received. People come to the board to learn. It is good to share a laugh and maybe we should say something like "just kidding" if we aren't serious. Is the board going to be about having fun or helping others. I thought it was both. Our comments need to be stated in such a manner that new readers understand when we are funning and when we are serious.

LFF- Top quality answer, my friend! That is exactly what I was referring to in regard to some of the rather ridiculous posts we encountered in the last few weeks. It is discouraging to sit at this machine for several hours attempting to be "Dead On" serious, and have your ideas and efforts fall on dead ears.

DOC HARRIS