saddlebum
Member
Some people swear by drastically reducing the protein given to bred cows late in the pregnancy in order to keep the calves small for easy delivery. Others say that the cows need more protein then than ever. Any thoughts?
protein in bred cows
- Thread starter saddlebum
- Start date
They need the protein.
Otherwise you end up with weak calves with underdeveloped digestive systems, inadequate immune systems, and chance neurological problems as well as other deformities. And you'll have cows with poor colostrum and poor milk production in addition to poor body condition, calving difficulties including retained placentas, and poor reproductive performance through the next breeding season -- in other words, they may not breed back. Easier to keep weight on a bred cow than to try to put it on a lactating cow.
All that's according to my vet -- he was having a long talk with a beef guy who didn't want to feed his cows much before they calved.
You'll get small calves alright, but it's not worth the scours, pneumonia, poor gains, and open cows you'll end up with.
Otherwise you end up with weak calves with underdeveloped digestive systems, inadequate immune systems, and chance neurological problems as well as other deformities. And you'll have cows with poor colostrum and poor milk production in addition to poor body condition, calving difficulties including retained placentas, and poor reproductive performance through the next breeding season -- in other words, they may not breed back. Easier to keep weight on a bred cow than to try to put it on a lactating cow.
All that's according to my vet -- he was having a long talk with a beef guy who didn't want to feed his cows much before they calved.
You'll get small calves alright, but it's not worth the scours, pneumonia, poor gains, and open cows you'll end up with.
saddlebum
Member
Thanks for your input. My hubby and I agree with all that you said, however, trying to convice my dad of that is another story. It's a matter of "been doing it that way for years, why mess with a good thing?"
saddlebum":1vnbw0zy said:
A lot of what you're asking is going to depend on the individual situation and the stage of pregnancy. Are the cows on pasture and being supplemented, or are they in a dry lot situation? Are they first, second, or third trimester? How often are they being fed and how much protein? As Milkmaid already stated - protein is vital for bred animals, but feeding 3rd trimester bred cows or heifers that are in a dry lot environent too much protein can (and has) create a calving season from hell.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
I think it's best to select cattle for calving ease. Then make sure bred cows get the proper nutrition. The most during the third trimester and during lactation.
saddlebum
Member
They are on bare fields (snow covered) with little available pasture value, being fed about 20 pounds of grass/alfafla hay daily along with protien tubs and 1 pound each "cake" which is 15% protien. They are in good shape now, but about 30 days before calving (first calf heifers) my family has always pulled the protein and cake, and switched to a grass hay. I agree with an earlier post, we do get smaller calves, but in recent years have not had a good breed back percentage on these heifers. Atribute some of that to the severe drought in our area. What do you think?msscamp":w0txfrho said:
novaman
Well-known member
Alright I'm going to give you my opinion on this. Prior to 30 days to calving you are feeding alfalfa hay which if fed at proper amounts will likely cover the protein requirements of the critter. I don't know that 20 pounds is enough hay as I feed closer to 35 but thats not for this thread. The point is your probably giving nearly enough protein with just the hay. Then your throwing in tubs and cake so your pouring the good stuff to them. Suddenly 30 days prior to calving all that protein gets yanked and they are getting some grass hay that, depending on the hay, probably isn't supplying enough protein for a cow in early pregnancy muchless one that has a calf in rapid development of the final trimester. If I were in your shoes I would consider feeding only alfalfa hay(assuming the hay has a good protein value) during early pregnancy. This would likely be just fine assuming you don't need to add much condition to the cows. Then when you get within your 30 days switch to the grass hay but look at your protein values and supplement with some sort of protein to put the cow at a level that would meet her requirements. Yes feeding too much protein will increase birthweights but I think people throw it way out of proportion and starve their cows of adequate protein to keep everything going just right. I have first calf heifers that have been on alfalfa and protein supplement the entire pregnancy and haven't noticed any major difference in BW.saddlebum":1jy9walg said:
saddlebum":3mloky3n said:
You can't starve a small calf out of a cow! I don;t remember the thread but there is a link to an article about immunity that's derived form colostrum. If it also doesn;t deal with the plane of nutrition pryor to calving it should
dun
saddlebum":23268v5a said:
IMO they're only maybe getting what they need on a daily basis now, and as they enter the last part of the third trimester their nutritional needs increase even more. I would not pull all their protein -- often times alfalfa hay is only 12-14% protein, and grass hay about equivalent to feeding straw. If you're going to feed grass hay, it should have been done a long time ago, back in the 1st or 2nd trimester. They need the good stuff now, and feed the good hay from now up to whenever you get good grass coming in -- a heavy bred cow needs a lot of nutrition, but it's nothing like what a lactating cow needs!
Susie David
Well-known member
When folks realize that the fetus achieves appx. 70% of its size during the third trimester the amount of feed shouldn't be hard to figure out. We increase the quality and quanity of the feed during this critical period. Big healthy calves are more welcome that smaller sickly ones especially if you are calving in the middle of winter. Only had to assist one cow in recent memory and that was a presentation corection...calf slid out in 20 minutes after her head was turned in the right direction.
We feed 16% alfalfa and some cracked corn when the temps drop into the single digits.
Just my two bits worth....DMc
We feed 16% alfalfa and some cracked corn when the temps drop into the single digits.
Just my two bits worth....DMc
randiliana
Well-known member
We don't increase the amount of feed in the last trimester, but we do save the best quality feed that we have for then and during calving. You will see more problems by feeding poorer quality feed then than you would if you fed the better stuff then. The calves might be a bit bigger (or not), but your cows are going to be in poorer condition, the colostrum poorer quality and the calves weaker. Better to have a bit bigger calf that is healthy, out of a healthy fat cow with lots of good quality colostrum....
saddlebum":2faa0fez said:
Given your area and conditions, I don't believe I would pull the protein and switch to grass hay - especially with first calf heifers who are still growing while supporting a developing calf. Although it's been a number of years since we fed cake, it doesn't sound like you're overfeeding. If the protein content in the hay makes you nervous, you can always dilute it with grass - 1 bale of grass for every 2 bales of alfalfa or so, assuming you're feeding small bales.
saddlebum
Member
appreciate all the advice, and will be showing all of your comments to the man in charge... Thanks for backing me up :)
Cowdirt
Well-known member
"Given your area and conditions, I don't believe I would pull the protein and switch to grass hay - especially with first calf heifers who are still growing while supporting a developing calf. Although it's been a number of years since we fed cake, it doesn't sound like you're overfeeding. If the protein content in the hay makes you nervous, you can always dilute it with grass - 1 bale of grass for every 2 bales of alfalfa or so, assuming you're feeding small bales.[/quote]
Don't want to highjack this thread but seems like it is winding down. I have a question. I've not heard the term "cake" used in my area when referring to feed. Exactly what is this? Is it a regional term? Thanks.
Don't want to highjack this thread but seems like it is winding down. I have a question. I've not heard the term "cake" used in my area when referring to feed. Exactly what is this? Is it a regional term? Thanks.
Don't want to highjack this thread but seems like it is winding down. I have a question. I've not heard the term "cake" used in my area when referring to feed. Exactly what is this? Is it a regional term? Thanks.[/quote]
cd
Some folks refer to various range cubes as "cake". It probably is regional.
cd
Some folks refer to various range cubes as "cake". It probably is regional.
Cowdirt":2v1xpuwv said:
Don't want to highjack this thread but seems like it is winding down. I have a question. I've not heard the term "cake" used in my area when referring to feed. Exactly what is this? Is it a regional term? Thanks.[/quote]
In my area 'cake' (also known as cotton cake) is a term used to refer to feed that is compressed into hard, cylindrical units (for lack of a better term), that are apprx an inch to an inch and half in length. I don't honestly remember exactly what it is comprised of, but I do know corn is one of the ingredients. It delivers a pretty good amount of protein - usually around 15 to maybe 20%, possibly higher. It is fed by dumping it in rows on the ground out of the bag (which also helps to keep a person in shape, and maintain their speed and agility :lol:), or it can be purchased in bulk and fed using a cake feeder mounted on a flatbed pickup. I'm not sure if 'range cubes' are the same thing, because 'range cubes' - in this area, at least - usually refer to compressed hay cubes.
I'm getting in on this conversation late, but it is soooo great to see all the posts giving the right answers. Wow!!!
It has been proven through research time & time again, that no matter what excess protein you feed during the last trimester, at best, you may increase the weight by 10# which has been proven to be better than not.
Everyone has hit all the important facts, healtheir calf, less calving difficulties, better colostrom, better breed back.
You are feeding them BACKWARDS to what you should be doing. Early gestation needs the LEAST nutrition, increasing quality the closer to calving.
I don't mean starve them in the beginning. Cattle of all ages & stages perform best throughout their livetime if fed to be kept in average to good condition.
It has been proven through research time & time again, that no matter what excess protein you feed during the last trimester, at best, you may increase the weight by 10# which has been proven to be better than not.
Everyone has hit all the important facts, healtheir calf, less calving difficulties, better colostrom, better breed back.
You are feeding them BACKWARDS to what you should be doing. Early gestation needs the LEAST nutrition, increasing quality the closer to calving.
I don't mean starve them in the beginning. Cattle of all ages & stages perform best throughout their livetime if fed to be kept in average to good condition.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Just after calves are weaned, for the next three months is the time to feed your poorest feed. Cows are in their second trimester, not milking and their nutrient requirments are at the lowest. feed them good feed in their last trimester and while nursing calves.
mnmt
mnmt
kyblockhead
Well-known member
Many people may disagree but I understand most of the calf birthweight to be tied to genetics rather than nutrition. I was taught the biggest issue with calving problems due to nutrition is that the cow gains internal fat which with the birth canal.
That is basically correct. Like I said, the MOST they put on the calves in research was about 10#. The internal fat should only be an issue if she is BCS 8.5-10, and I have heard that internal fat isn't as big a problem as they used to think it was. But you're talking one fat cow to be in the 9-10 type range for BCS. :shock:kyblockhead":26h425fd said:
Of course, I have seen one or two posted on here that had to be bumping that range.
